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What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+?


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#1 sjlouis

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:33

Hi,

 

I don't know if it is the good forum to ask this question but I don't know where I can do it. Perhaps somebody can help me.

 

I am a little afraid of the future of our boxes since Canal+ changes the encryption of the channels. We have lost the HD channels and since a few months, we can't see Motors TV which is a SD channel but with the new encryption, and this change will end next year. Thus we will not see Canal+/Canalsat any more :wacko: .

 

Does somebody knows if the Frenchmen are the only one who have this problem, if developers are working on softcam as Oscam, Cccam?

 

Thank you :) .


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #2 WanWizard

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:44

No, other providers are starting to do the same, like SKY (UK + IT, DE not sure), and M7.

 

The problem is CWOE, which means the received codeword is encrypted as well. So the softcam is able to extract the codeword, but not decrypt it, which happens using a key that is part of/generated by the CI in the providers original box.

 

The fun part (if you may call it that), is that this mechanism essentially blocks you from:

- watching TV using an open receiver with a legitimate subscriber card you have paid for

- sharing that card inside your house

 

It will not block the large pay server organisations, which have the money to have this new encryption hacked, but will not make it public since they make money of it.

 

So this operation has the exact opposite effect of what the providers want. It will make people currently paying for the subscription to cancel that (since they can't view anymore), and switch to a pay server (that has solved the problem).

 

In short: very stupid move!


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #3 athoik

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:48

Well, in Greece we have two sat providers and both are using special measurments against piracy, so you can only watch those using their STB. Pirates vs SatProviders 0 - 1 (although now IPTV is the new trend...)

Unfortunately, don't expect any legal way soon.

Most probably the only way to have those channels partially under your control is by using HDMI-IN (and bypassing HDCP...)
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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #4 sjlouis

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:57

Yes I've seen Atlas (HD 100 and HD 200) have hacked this new encryption. Thus I hope it can be done also for Linux boxes.

 

I want to have a legal solution with a Linux box but I don't think Canal will lost a lot of customers with this operation. The customers will take official boxes which are very very poor.

 

 

The HDMI IN don't solve all the official boxes problems : only one record in a time, slow, not convivial...


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #5 pop_eye

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:03

It will be more easier to trace the content back to the subscribed receiver - I don`t think entirely this is a stupid move.

 

Content fingerprinting as well other measures will not really make things easier even for big players - it will become more expensive

to steal content.

 

Look a this from the provider angle...

 

You are paying anyway a third party for an unlicensed stb and the support- why not using that money to subsidize the content industry ?


Edited by pop_eye, 17 September 2014 - 16:04.


Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #6 WanWizard

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:21

The problem with a licensed STB is well known. They are crap, and don't do what I want from it as a consumer.

 

I'm still amazed at the power of the industry, and the unability of the politicans to do something about it.

 

It's a bit like: "I want to go to Rome for the weekend". "Ah, but you are only allowed to drive to Rome if you buy a Fiat 500!"... Nobody would accept that!


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #7 pop_eye

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:25

I think they will unless everyone becomes a pirate...which I really doubt.

 

It was always a cat and mouse game just that right now the cat wants the cheese - who cares about the mouse anyway ?

 

You can always capture the content - remember the mythtv days with the capture cards ?

So it is not really a problem to change some variables when watching it.


Edited by pop_eye, 17 September 2014 - 16:29.


Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #8 athoik

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:29

It's a bit like: "I want to go to Rome for the weekend". "Ah, but you are only allowed to drive to Rome if you buy a Fiat 500!"... Nobody would accept that!

And you buy a Mercedes to carry the Fiat 500 all the way ;) (or Fiat 500 is carrying Mercendes :P)

You can't fight them ;) We are already enter the cage (youtube, netflix), they know what wee see, when we see, how times we see, they already see on us ...
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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #9 pop_eye

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:34

It's a bit like: "I want to go to Rome for the weekend". "Ah, but you are only allowed to drive to Rome if you buy a Fiat 500!"... Nobody would accept that!

And you buy a Mercedes to carry the Fiat 500 all the way ;) (or Fiat 500 is carrying Mercendes :P)

You can't fight them ;) We are already enter the cage (youtube, netflix), they know what wee see, when we see, how times we see, they already see on us ...

 

Some are doing that already just to prove to themselves they can...

Is it feasible ? The human nature always prevails..sooner or later the cheaper price is dictating the rules.

 

The only problem I see is that FTA is becoming only a money scheme - the hobby is no longer there.


Edited by pop_eye, 17 September 2014 - 16:36.


Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #10 WanWizard

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:35

It's all very easy: sell a certified CI, and allow that to be used in any box that supports CI's.

 

With enough capacity for multiple streams, and preferrably no CI+. And STB's should fix the problem of routing multiple streams to the CI (so you can record from multiple transponders with a single CI).

 

Providers happy. Legitimate users happy.


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #11 pop_eye

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:48

CI is already obsolete since CI+ is pushed on the legitimate users.

 

In this industry legitimate users rarely have something to say - unless major backlash to the content providers.


Edited by pop_eye, 17 September 2014 - 16:50.


Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #12 WanWizard

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:56

Rumour has it that CI+ can be dealt with, so that should not be a big problem.

 

M7 already has a CI, and SKY DE as well (which is CI+). I wonder if the German CI could be used to read the SKY IT or SKY UK card?


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #13 pop_eye

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 17:16

You could probably use it if the CI+ or whatever knows to accept the different provider network code in the CI authorization process

and if the card is not using hardware paring also.

 

Already two stopping bricks - you need a bigger hammer to use :)



Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #14 Pr2

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 17:19

Hi,

 

Yes M7 has a CI that only support 1 decoding, so not even a full TP just one channel... so you need to watch what you are recording!

So yes they provide a CI but you lost all the advantages of your "free" STB but OK they don't choose a CI+ one it is a CI.

 

And now we learned that M7 will switch to Viaccess, so they sold a first CI, then change the CI to enable nano01 overencryption and next step is switch to Viaccess... they do it all for you to purchase/rent there crappy STBs.

 

But you are right that payservers put lots of money on the table to have private solutions, so finally it is the honest end-users that just want to make a local sharing in house that are pushed on the illegal way to continue watching TV.

But I am really not sure that they will really lost so many customers, because yes some people will stop the subscription but at the same time other will go to there official solution... and people that stop there subscription will come back sooner or later...  :D

 

What I don't understand is that french people complaint in forums but why don't they complaint to association that defend the customer rights, you have some powerfull one in France and I never read that they made an investigation on this... so come on French people make your "1789" STB Revolution, please!!!!  :lol:

 

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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #15 WanWizard

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 17:25

As I understand there is a new M7 CI on the way that doesn't have that limitation. In the current state is not very useful, I agree.

 

It will be a bigger challenge to have the box multiplex streams from multiple TP's into a single stream and push that through the CI. It isn't for nothing that headend muxers cost a bloody fortune... ;)


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #16 pop_eye

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 17:31

The french will not complain as long TNT oscam solution is working... ;)

 

So you see people know the end is near they still believe in fairytales that superman will come to the rescue and release Viaccess autoroll feature (free of course).



Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #17 Alain_sat

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 18:15

Oscam is only opening SD channels, as everything will be mpeg4 next year.......


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #18 littlesat

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 18:18

See post #4....


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #19 Erik Slagter

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 18:38

Oscam is only opening SD channels, as everything will be mpeg4 next year.......

Interesting to see all of these have relation to each other?!


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Re: What is the future of Linux boxes in France with Canal+? #20 Pr2

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 21:24

LOL

 

the problem is that they use overencryption on the cw so OScam need to post-process them, and on TNTSAT HD channels they use the key 0x17 (AES) which is not public, the reasons why you can unscramble SD channels is because they use other keys for those channels and those keys are public... if they decide to also use key 0x17 on the SD channels you will all have black screen even in SD.  :D

 

So of course there is no link between OScam, SD channels and mpeg4   ;)

 

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