160 replies to this topic

[Huevos]

Let's put the recording thing apart for the minute.

 

I go into my list (from the STB), select BBC1 HD, then menu, add alternatives. Then select BBC1 SD. Then save.

 

Now if I select BBC1 HD the box always opens BBC1 SD irrespective of what tuners are available.

 

The way I see it the other channels are alternatives and should only be selected if the prinicipal service is not available. So why is the principal service not the selected service?

[littlesat]

the point is that services show as being recorded while they aren't.

The real point is that what you stated here does not happen... I verified it that it is performing as it should be! I'm really afraid that you do not understand it...

Edited by Frenske, 18 May 2015 - 11:00.

[Huevos]

So why does the alternative take priority over the principal service? Is that expected behaviour too?

[Rob van der Does]

the point is that services show as being recorded while they aren't.

The real point is that what you stated here does not happen... I verified it that it is performing as it should be! I'm really afraid that you do not understand it...

Well, you just told us that you have the same issue as I reported:

I have here a userbouquet with ziggo, digitenne, cds hd and cds sd and an alternative with all four. When I record e.g. From cds hd then cds hd and the alternative get the red dot. When I record from digitenne, then digitenne and the alternative get the red dot and when I record from e.g. Cds hd and also digitenne I get three dots... This is exactly as it was designed... It makes red dots if one of the services in an alternative is recorded......

An alternative is not a service!

Of course an alternative is (also) a service; how could it possibly not be one?

[Rob van der Does]

Pull request for RemoteStreamConverter is on https://github.com/E...onverter/pull/5

[littlesat]

Thanks... Merged!

@Huevos,
There is no priority... It simply gives a red dot when one of the services within an alternative is recorded.

An no... An alternative is NOT a service... It is a LIST of (alternative) services... but I suggest it is all clear now... At least the why and reason why alternatives are red dotted and you can get two red dots when you have a service and an alternative which includes that same service ....

Edited by littlesat, 18 May 2015 - 16:51.

[WanWizard]

I think I can follow Rob, so I'll try to recap:

 

Channel BBC1-HD

Channel BBC1-SD

 

Both in the same bouquet.

 

If you record BBC1-HD, you get a red dot before BBC1-HD, and not before BBC1-SD. If you record channel BBC1-SD, you get a red dot before BBC1-SD, and not before BBC1-HD. With me sofar?

 

Now you select BBC1-HD, menu, add alternative, and select BBC1-SD. Now BBC1-SD is an alternative for BBC1-HD, but BBC1-HD is not defined as an alternative of BBC1-SD.

 

Now, if you record BBC1-HD, you get a red dot not only in front of BBC1-HD, but also in front of BBC1-SD. Which is false, there is no recording active for (the service ref of) BBC1-SD. If you record BBC1-SD, you still only get a red dot before BBC1-SD.

 

The two red dots suggest that there are two recordings running, one for BBC1-HD and one for BBC1-SD. While you will find only one timer active, and one tuner occupied.

 

Correct interpretation, Rob?

[littlesat]

I also understand.... But now the what if....

Basically bbc sd in your sitution is not bbc sd anymore, but an alternative that includes bbc hd and bbc sd... And when hd is recorded, the same is valid for the (new) combination... If you rename in this case bbc sd to bbc alternatives or so it will become more clear...

And in case bbc hd is nit on the list at all, you do not get red dots again that indicates someing at bbc is recorded.

I know how to "solve" it, but this solution may trigger other wierd stuff.... You can define doe each recording we give one red dot... But then it will give a red dot on the first time a service is found in the userbouquet. And this is somehowe also not correct...

Edited by littlesat, 18 May 2015 - 17:01.

[Rob van der Does]

Basically bbc sd in your sitution is not bbc sd anymore, but an alternative that includes bbc hd and bbc sd... And when hd is recorded, the same is valid for the (new) combination... If you rename in this case bbc sd to bbc alternatives or so it will become more clear...

I don't agree. BBC SD is still the very same service as when it was not an alternative to BBC HD. You can have it in a bouquet, you can watch it, you can make a recording, you can stream it, regardless of what happens to the BBC HD service.

Edited by Rob van der Does, 18 May 2015 - 17:24.

[littlesat]

When you add alternatives it is technically not a service anymore, but a list of services. It is as simple as it is. You cannot get around this...
And now we are at the basics of this basically non issue!
Unless I do now understand what you mean....

Edited by littlesat, 18 May 2015 - 17:30.

[dAF2000]

I think the point is: we just don't know whether the original/principal service is recorded or if the alternative is recorded. 

[littlesat]

An alternative is a list of services... So we cannot record an alternative. What we can record is a service within a recording... It is highlighted when a serice within a alternative is recorded and also when a service is recorded. This clarifies the two red dots in rob's screenshot. When you remove the alternative check on the recording this double red dots is gone... But what if you have a userbouquet that does only contain an alternative an not all the plain services in addition.... Then you do not get a recording indication at all....

[WanWizard]

I think I understand your explanation, but that means there is something seriously flawed with the implementation of alternatives.

 

As I understand it now:

 

You start with a channel entry (say BBC1-HD), with service ref. 1:2:3:4. This is a normal channel entry. Now you add a second channel (say BBC1-SD with service ref 5:6:7:8) to it as an alternative.

 

This action will replace your original channel entry to an alternatives entry that contains a list: BBC1-HD 1:2:3:4 and BBC1-SD 5:6:7:8), and now Enigma doesn't know anymore when you zap to that entry (or record it) which of the service ref's was the original?

 

Does this also mean that the channel icon in front of the channel changes (from a dish symbol for example) to something else, indicating the channel type has changed?

[Dimitrij]

It is interesting as it can solve ...

[littlesat]

It second question is... should it be solved? Because there is simply no good solution....

Edited by littlesat, 18 May 2015 - 17:50.

[Rob van der Does]

@ Littlesat:
The way you talk about it it looks like you swap the definitions.
We have a service, that has alternatives assigned to it (so one of these can be used instead of the actual service), and we have services that have been assigned as alternative to a service.

Anyway: when recording an (one) event, only one service is engaged by it (and hence also only one tuner).
It is that specific service that should show as such. There is no pint in showing the (other) alternatives as being recorded, while this is not the case.

[littlesat]

The point ie that we do not have a service with alternatives.... Instread of a service with alternatives it is just a simple list of services.... Few... I hope you finally get it...

Edited by littlesat, 18 May 2015 - 19:34.

[WanWizard]

That was indeed the conclusion I arrived at.

 

Problem is that while I understand the technical reasoning of "why" it behaves like that, a user does not. Which is why I suggested that if it is possible to indicate the bouquet entry is no longer a channel, but an alternatives list, it would help the user see the difference.

 

Then it will be easier for the user to create a separate alternatives bouquet, and move all these entries that are lists to that bouquet.

 

Something I wonder though: if there is no longer a single channel service ref, but a list of refs (with no ref that can be pointed at as being the original channel ref), how does the service selector know which EPG to display for that bouquet entry? Because that does a lookup on service ref if I understand it correctly.

[Rob van der Does]

The point ie that we do not have a service with alternatives.... Instread of a service with alternatives it is just a simple list of services.... Few... I hope you finally get it...

It'll be me being thick, but: no, I don't get it.
Surely E2 knows which service is actually being recorded (as the movie list shows the correct service in the details of a recording). So why does the service-list not know it?

Anyway: if this can't be fixed, the only way to get correct information would be to switch of the record indication in the service list (which would really be a pity).

[WanWizard]

What Littlesat is trying to say (I think) is not that E2 doesn't know what is recorded, but that the channel list entry (one that has alternatives) is no longer a single service ref, but a list of service refs. And that you get a recording marker in front of it if one of the refs in this list is recording.

 

The mistake you make is that you think that because the original channel name was "BBC1 HD", it is still that service ref in the original service type (sat, cable). It isn't.

 

If you have BBC1-HD on sat and on cable, and the channel entry contains the list of both service refs, then zapping to that entry gives you the first that is available. You won't know if that is the sat one or the cable one. The other way around, that entry services both the sat and the cable ref, so if one of those is recording, the red dot is visible.

 

The fact that the channel entry started his life as a cable or a sat channel is no longer relevant.