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always same AGC Level (37%)


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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #21 jpuigs

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 20:53

This is very important value.

For example:

ET8500

LNB 36E --> 20 meters of cable --> Agc 81%-85%

At one point, the value was Agc 30%-40% --> reason --> cable was broken in it is exposed to water

 

 

Finally somebody understands me !!!!

I have detected bird shit on a LNB just by watching an AGC decrease.

I have detected oxid due to water into a disecq switch just by watching "dancing" AGC.


Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #22 Matrix10

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 23:41

 

This is very important value.

For example:

ET8500

LNB 36E --> 20 meters of cable --> Agc 81%-85%

At one point, the value was Agc 30%-40% --> reason --> cable was broken in it is exposed to water

 

 

Finally somebody understands me !!!!

I have detected bird shit on a LNB just by watching an AGC decrease.

I have detected oxid due to water into a disecq switch just by watching "dancing" AGC.

 

 

 

SNR was supposedly stable with broken cable and water in diseqc :D



Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #23 jpuigs

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 00:06

With broken cable I don't know, but in my two cases (bird "gift" and oxide into diseqc board circuit) SNR wasn't very different to normal conditions.

As birds use to shit while flying, in my case it affected one polarity more than the other, SNR was ok but AGC was very different from one polarity to the other.


Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #24 littlesat

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:14

But it still means something is broken in the et8k drivers....

WaveFrontier 28.2E | 23.5E | 19.2E | 16E | 13E | 10/9E | 7E | 5E | 1W | 4/5W | 15W


Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #25 Rob van der Does

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:16

Yes, and Xtrend is aware of that (as they are of the broken HbbTV plugin). So we wait.....



Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #26 Erik Slagter

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 14:51

 

The AGC value is 100% obtained from the driver and copied verbatim. That also mean that the actual meaning of the value is also completely imposed by the driver. If someone has complains about the AGC value, they can report it to the manufacturer directly.

 

But besides that, AGC is both meaningless and completely unsuitable for comparison between different tuners. For one,  AGC should decrease when the signal gets stronger. In practise most (!) tuners report a value that increases on stronger signal. Or, and that's in the majority of the cases, they report a value that's more or less meaningless.

 

So okay, can we now stop the endless AGC discussion. Ignore it and everybody's happy.

 

Eric AGC should not decrease when the signal gets stronger.

But increase.

 

Which means, with stronger signal , higher AGC
whose function is to reduce the strength of strong signals to the input of the receiver to minimize the possibility of creating harmonics and other additional products in front of the receiver.

 

You are right.

AGC has no practical value for the user and antenna measurements.

 

No the AGC should decrease on stronger signal. It's called GAIN CONTROL, it's not called ATTENUATION CONTROL. Stronger signal, less amplification, less AGC. I know that most tuners implement the readout the other way around, it still doesn't change the concept.


* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #27 Erik Slagter

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 14:55

 

 

This is very important value.

For example:

ET8500

LNB 36E --> 20 meters of cable --> Agc 81%-85%

At one point, the value was Agc 30%-40% --> reason --> cable was broken in it is exposed to water

Finally somebody understands me !!!!

I have detected bird shit on a LNB just by watching an AGC decrease.

I have detected oxid due to water into a disecq switch just by watching "dancing" AGC.

SNR was supposedly stable with broken cable and water in diseqc :D

AGC value is still irrelevant. If the signal gets attenuated by cables, connectors, etc. but can be amplified to an optimal level using the AGC circuit, you will see the SNR value remains the same. Only the SNR value is relevant, because it determines the margin between fault-free reception (after FEC) and reception with errors (BER > 0). The signal STRENGTH is irrelevant.


* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.


Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #28 jpuigs

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 19:37

Just to inform you that I've noticed that on my ET 10000 it happens the same, but instead 37%  I get 64% everywhere.


Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #29 jpuigs

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 19:45

I can't edit eartlier post. 

 

Just to inform you that I've noticed that on my ET 10000 it happens the same, but instead 37%  I get:

64% on all channels on tuner A

50% on all channelsTuner B

84% on all channelsTuner C

36% on all channelsTuner D.

Good drivers, my god !


Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #30 athoik

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 20:08

Can you post output of the following utils?

femon will display values directly from tuner using dvb api v3.
 
# opkg install dvb-femon
# femon -a 0 -f 0
FE: Vuplus FE (DVBS)
status SCVYL | signal 9eae | snr d598 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 9eae | snr d68e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 9eae | snr d428 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a13d | snr d3d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 9eae | snr d5c1 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 9eae | snr d47a | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
...
dvb-fe-tool will display values again directly from tuner, but is able to use dvb api v5 (and v3 as well) and has other great features (print delsys, print current tuner paramters etc).
 
# opkg install v4l-utils

# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 61.99% C/N= 83.87% UCB= 54967 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 61.99% C/N= 83.69% UCB= 54844 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 61.99% C/N= 83.19% UCB= 54516 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 61.99% C/N= 82.50% UCB= 54066 postBER= 0
....
Use correct value to -f 0 (tuner A -> 0, B -> 1 ...)

Edited by athoik, 30 May 2016 - 20:09.

Wavefield T90: 0.8W - 1.9E - 4.8E - 13E - 16E - 19.2E - 23.5E - 26E - 33E - 39E - 42E - 45E on EMP Centauri DiseqC 16/1
Unamed: 13E Quattro - 9E Quattro on IKUSI MS-0916

Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #31 jpuigs

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 20:46

TUNER A (AVL-6211)

root@et10000:~# femon -a 0 -f 0
FE: DVB-S2 (DVBS)
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a3d7 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a2a2 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a3d7 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a424 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a2ef | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a2ef | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a16e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a2ef | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a1e1 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal a550 | snr a16e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

root@et10000:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 64.59% UCB= 42328 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 63.65% UCB= 41711 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 64.12% UCB= 42020 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 63.35% UCB= 41518 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 62.94% UCB= 41249 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 63.53% UCB= 41634 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 63.65% UCB= 41711 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 63.82% UCB= 41827 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 64.12% UCB= 42020 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 64.58% C/N= 63.65% UCB= 41711 postBER= 0

TUNER B (AVL-6211)

root@et10000:~# femon -a 0 -f 1
FE: DVB-S2 (DVBS)
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a9dd | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a91c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a8cf | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a85b | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a80e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr aac4 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a9dd | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a98f | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr aa50 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr aac4 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 8111 | snr a91c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

root@et10000:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 1
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.65% UCB= 43022 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.76% UCB= 43099 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 66.53% UCB= 43600 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.47% UCB= 42906 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 66.06% UCB= 43292 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.65% UCB= 43022 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.76% UCB= 43099 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.76% UCB= 43099 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.47% UCB= 42906 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 50.42% C/N= 65.94% UCB= 43215 postBER= 0

TUNER C (AVL-6211)

root@et10000:~# femon -a 0 -f 2
FE: DVB-S2 (DVBS)
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d25f | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d151 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d407 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d4c7 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d454 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d31f | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d25f | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d25f | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d19e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal d824 | snr d31f | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

root@et10000:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 2
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 82.65% UCB= 54163 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 82.94% UCB= 54356 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 82.47% UCB= 54047 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 81.77% UCB= 53585 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 82.06% UCB= 53778 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 81.41% UCB= 53354 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 81.41% UCB= 53354 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 81.12% UCB= 53161 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 84.43% C/N= 81.88% UCB= 53662 postBER= 0

TUNER D (AVL-6211)

root@et10000:~# femon -a 0 -f 3
FE: DVB-S2 (DVBS)
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9e6b | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9d36 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9e6b | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9df7 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9daa | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9daa | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9daa | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9d36 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal 61de | snr 9cc3 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

root@et10000:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 3
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.18% UCB= 40747 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.00% UCB= 40632 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.59% UCB= 41017 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.18% UCB= 40747 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.18% UCB= 40747 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.29% UCB= 40825 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.29% UCB= 40825 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.18% UCB= 40747 postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 38.23% C/N= 62.47% UCB= 40940 postBER= 0

TUNER E: USB (TBS-5925)

root@et10000:~# femon -a 1 -f 0
FE: STV090x Multistandard (DVBS)
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e3d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e28e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e3d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e28e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e3d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e3d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Problem retrieving frontend information: Operation not supported
status SCVYL | signal 9999 | snr e28e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

root@et10000:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 1 -f 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 89.00% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 89.00% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 89.00% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 88.50% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 89.00% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 88.50% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 89.00% postBER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 60.00% C/N= 89.00% postBER= 0

TUNER F: USB (A835B DVB-T)

root@et10000:~# femon -a 2 -f 0
FE: Afatech AF9033 (DVB-T) (DVBT)
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status SCVYL | signal ffff | snr cfff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000276 | FE_HAS_LOCK


root@et10000:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 2 -f 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0
Lock   (0x1f) Quality= Good Signal= -40.00dBm C/N= 31.00dB UCB= 630 postBER= 0 PER= 0

Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #32 athoik

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 21:38

Ok, it's the driver return that value using DVB API v3, they don't use yet v5 DVB API.

Tuner F seems to provide v5 statistics ;)

The reason I was asking of those values is because it seems? that Sundek returns crap DVB API v5 data, and @dimitrij forced Sundek to use v3 API. (Although never confirmed that Sundek return crap v5 data).
Wavefield T90: 0.8W - 1.9E - 4.8E - 13E - 16E - 19.2E - 23.5E - 26E - 33E - 39E - 42E - 45E on EMP Centauri DiseqC 16/1
Unamed: 13E Quattro - 9E Quattro on IKUSI MS-0916

Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #33 jpuigs

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 22:56

So let's hope Xtrend fixes drivers......


Edited by jpuigs, 30 May 2016 - 22:56.

Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #34 Dimitrij

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 05:35

 that @dimitrij forced Sundek to use v3 API. (Although never confirmed that Sundek return crap v5 data).

Sundek v5 data:

signalquality = snr

signalqualitydb = 0


GigaBlue UHD Quad 4K /Lunix3-4K/Solo 4K


Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #35 Rob van der Does

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 07:09

Xtrend ET 8000.

All transponders show AGC level of 37 %, regardless of SNR level

Hmm, not here; they show varying values as ever on all embedded DVB-S2 tuners (running XTA atm, driver date is 2016-04-20).



Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #36 athoik

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 07:38

 

 that @dimitrij forced Sundek to use v3 API. (Although never confirmed that Sundek return crap v5 data).

Sundek v5 data:

signalquality = snr

signalqualitydb = 0

 

 

So indeed they do not return dB although they are using v5 DVB API that supports an array of statistics.

 

Ask them to return FE_SCALE_DECIBEL as well and there should store the dB, then no calculation needed in Enigma2.


Edited by athoik, 31 May 2016 - 07:38.

Wavefield T90: 0.8W - 1.9E - 4.8E - 13E - 16E - 19.2E - 23.5E - 26E - 33E - 39E - 42E - 45E on EMP Centauri DiseqC 16/1
Unamed: 13E Quattro - 9E Quattro on IKUSI MS-0916

Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #37 jpuigs

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 13:26

 

Xtrend ET 8000.

All transponders show AGC level of 37 %, regardless of SNR level

Hmm, not here; they show varying values as ever on all embedded DVB-S2 tuners (running XTA atm, driver date is 2016-04-20).

 

 

Then....... if drivers are of 2016-04-20, like OpenPli, where is the bug ???


Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #38 Rob van der Does

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 15:43

Not for me to answer that :)



Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #39 jpuigs

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Posted 5 June 2016 - 13:28

 

Hmm, not here; they show varying values as ever on all embedded DVB-S2 tuners (running XTA atm, driver date is 2016-04-20).

 

 

I've tried Open XTA image, and the problem is still the same, but with some  small difference.

 

All channels on Tuner A: 64 %

All channels on Tuner B: 54 %

All channels on Tuners C & D: 99%

 

 

So, its driver problem.

I've installed a backup OP4 image from one month ago, and  it works fine.


Enigma is getting old....

 

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Re: always same AGC Level (37%) #40 Rob van der Does

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Posted 5 June 2016 - 14:15

And you also have DVB-S2 tuners?




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