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Hello all.
I just saw on youtube a video in German about what HD+ & CI+ really can do.

v=qt2o0mL0fjE

It's a freakin' nightmare!
-Nomore recording
-Nomore transfer allowed recording to external storage medium
-Nomore timeshift
-Nomore fastforward

What more limitations does HD+ / CI+ has? And in howfar will our Enigma2 tuners support it? Is their difference in support in Dreambox/VU+/ET ?

Interesting website: DefectiveByDesign.org

Entertainment industry wants to limit us so much(HDMI, Blu-Ray, HD+, CI+), they don't follow the country rules, but force their own rules everywhere.(and that is actually illegal)

This video is allready uploaded in august 2010 so in fact old news.
But perhaps there still are some users that didn't know the 'fabulous features of HD+'. :wink:

Hi

Yes, the limitations are really bad. The workaround is quite easy. Use a softcam (instead of of CI+ modul) with the internal reader or external reader (like easmouse or smargo etc.). Oscam works fine for all HD+ cards (HD01 and HD02). CCCam works with HD01 but not with HD02.

BR, Jbg

Interesting to see that in the Netherlands some policital debate started about providers forcing users to use/buy/rent propriatary dvb equipment, and the suggestion to move to an 'open' system where you can plug your smartcard into any box you want, and use it for any provider. Kinda like a dreambox...

I was looking around (because i want faster internet, still use adsl here at 14/1 Mbps). And suddenly enter the user forum of a Dutch coax provider (here they are region monopolists, so i don't like that, you cannot chose for coax cable provider). chelloo dot com.
And what do i see on their homepage, You can get CI+ module for in your CI+ enabled device(like tv).
OMG, they're so stupid. (or should i say coax cable provider upc is so evil) I mean it's a forum, so not from the company UPC itselves, and they just don't warn the users about the facts of CI+ & HD+. Do they even know about the facts?

Anyway, just to let you know. And i got the answer of my question: No i cannot get only internet on coax cable. It must have analog tv/radio accounttoo (so stupid) german coax provider offer only internet. And glasfibre (ftth) will take years before it's in the house (rivierenbuurt) here in Amsterdam.

Interesting to see that in the Netherlands some policital debate started about providers forcing users to use/buy/rent propriatary dvb equipment, and the suggestion to move to an 'open' system where you can plug your smartcard into any box you want, and use it for any provider. Kinda like a dreambox...

And guess what, politicians listen to coax cable provider lobby.
Because the DVB-C providers in the Netherlands, like UPC, are forcing their users to upgrade to CI+.

I'm in a Dutch topic on a upc forum about CI+, and tell them that it'is possible to use enigma2 tuners with dvb-c tunercard or usb.
They don't believe me, and think CI+ is not user limiting. /images/smiley/pfft.gif

Just to inform for people who choose dvb-c provider: I suppose we can use enigma2 devices with sdvb-c tuner for watching coax digital tv? I mean, not all members of that provider have ci+ (HD+) supported hardware.

What will our enigma2 softcams do in the future with CI+ / HD+ ? Support it (legal or illegal?) What if all HD channels start using CI+ / HD+.

p.s. don't worry, i won't use dvb-c, i only choose that coax region monopolist(upc) for internet access, because adsl has too poor upload, and glasfibre will take many years before it's in my house.

but for this internet acces you have to pay for there basic analoge TV also which is a rippoff
because they refuse to use bandwith limiters to split TV and Internet

They don't believe me, and think CI+ is not user limiting.

Well, for now, they are right. All the user limiting stuff is not in use (yet...)

What will our enigma2 softcams do in the future with CI+ / HD+.

They will need an expensive hardware hack (open a licenced box, remove some IC enclosures and investigate them), to obtain a few working keys. Once the keys are out, softcams will continue to function as they always have. Given the marketvalue for dreamboxes and similar tuners, getting the estimated ~100k funding for the hack shouldn't be too much of a problem.

They don't believe me, and think CI+ is not user limiting.

Well, for now, they are right. All the user limiting stuff is not in use (yet...)

What will our enigma2 softcams do in the future with CI+ / HD+.

They will need an expensive hardware hack (open a licenced box, remove some IC enclosures and investigate them), to obtain a few working keys. Once the keys are out, softcams will continue to function as they always have. Given the marketvalue for dreamboxes and similar tuners, getting the estimated ~100k funding for the hack shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Well, that's not so easy if you plan supporting CI+ modules in your hardware (considering card cannot work in softcams). First of all, keys can be revoked. Then, you need a hardware that can do AES/3DES decoding in hardware realtime, since the CI+ doesn't deliver decrypted TS like common CI modules. The stream is encrypted with AES/3DES or similar advanced encryption systems.
Adding a specialised CI+ decoder chip in those boxes that already have CI modules is a more probable scenario. I guess next versions of broadcom chips will have such option.

hardware that can do AES/3DES decoding in hardware realtime

No problem for the controllers used in the Enigma2 boxes....

Please CI+ support add E2 boxes.

Because CI+ license don't give international group.

Regards...

Please CI+ support add E2 boxes.

Because CI+ license don't give international group.

Regards...

Do you understand what CI+ and HD+ actually do?
They limit you!
So No support of CI+ and HD+ in enigma2 image!
But it would be ok if it is supported by some softcams.
But then in away that we only experience the good things(looking & listening, recording HD+ and CI+ channels), and not experience the bad things(No recording possible, no skipping commercials possible, not playable on other player, harming/break your hardware if signal provider wants to).
But better is to boycott HD+ and CI+, tell everyone you know about the limitations it offers. It is not a better quality then HD, it is only more user limitations.
Some softcams do support some HD+. But better is if everyone will boycott HD+ and CI+. Don't believe the marketeers!

I understand you, but Digiturk Platform (Turkey DVB digital platform) allows the CI+.
And their use of the very worst cases.

Yours ...

More signal providers offers CI+ and HD+, but it's not necessary at the moment. The channels can also be viewed without CI+ and HD+.
The request of having this support is more up to the softcam developers, and not to the image developers.
I hope the softcam developers will only support the necessary things to view/record HD+ and CI+, and so will not support the limitations..

But better is to boycott HD+ and CI+,.As long as it it not necessary to use, then don't use it. Added comment to youtube video's who promote HD+ and CI+, put links to video's who tell the truth of HD+ and CI+.

Keep in mind, CI+ & HD+ is the opposite of Enigma box.
Enigma box is to offer you as much freedom experience as possible. CI+ and HD+ is to limit your experience as much as possible. (get a box supported by your signal provider if you want full HD+ and CI+ user limitations support)

I asked at OScam forum, what OScam will do in a future with HD+ and CI+.
It's also a poll, so give your vote, or post what your idea is about HD+ / CI+ support with OScam(If it's possible).

Read / post / Vote here.

Thank you very much.

Regards...

I asked at OScam forum, what OScam will do in a future with HD+ and CI+.
It's also a poll, so give your vote, or post what your idea is about HD+ / CI+ support with OScam(If it's possible).

Read / post / Vote here.

I don't know why that poll is started, HD+ smartcards are supported in OsCam from the beginning, I can confirm (and lots of other users ) that it is working great.

Dream multimedia image 3.2.1 gives a nice HD+ related popup, check the attached image.
Do we want this function in DMM image? NO!
We're lucky that their are 3th party image builders like OpenPli, where you can choose what to use.
Edited by J3r03n5ky, 13 November 2011 - 20:36.

I want this funtion in the orginal enigma321 image. It will add to the fact that dreamboxes are becoming impopulair.
With these kind of enhencements they are actually turning the dreams into real nightmares.
Within a year or two dream will be a historical fact. After that the drivers will be reversed enginered and real opensource community support wil takeover.

We as moderators see that there is a fraud going on in this topic regarding the reputation module.
The moderators see it and we don't like this!

So please don't do it again...