125 replies to this topic

[DimitarCC]

People stop that sully discussion!!!! if DMM have problem with PLi software or plugins it should make official statement! Everything modifying here is OPENSOURCE. OPENSOURCE means everyhting can be modified! But in most of the case cant be used for commertial purposes! PLi team do not sell his software so dont blame it! Again if DMM have problem with all that THEY should make the staement. No some users here that maybe do not have even the conection with DMM!!!

[littlesat]

It is not DMM making problems here. But the creators of plugins.... That is the mean fact here! And now think about what really is going on here...

Please stay polite!!!

[VU+NL]

.....And by the way.
Because of the way the other manufacturers act like, dream stopped adding new features for MONTHS now.

Now this is an interesting statement! What you basically say, is that Dream went out of business, leaving their own clients from whom they obtained large sums of money, just one year after a small, new competitor came into business.......
Not much of a company then, and especially not worth protecting (on the contrary one would say)!

[Alias1]

Well dont see him complaining on the VTI board or the Black Hole board LMFAO

[littlesat]

OPENSOURCE means everyhting can be modified!

This is not true. Every creater of a plugin for Enigma2 can create his own limitations.... And that is the clue here....

[TheMystery]

But is there no difference if you make the software freely available as openpli does, or sell the software?

[reichi]

Pieterg & Milo.
You said you respect our wishes, I expect you to take the proper actions within the next week.
Thank you.

[andyblac]

can i ask a question, are the people creating these plugins using GPL based plugins on the "closed" license version of enigma2, i maybe be wrong, but i see some GPL licensed plugins on the git where this original plugin in from. if those people are installing/using GPL licensed based plugin there breaking the GPL license too, this works both ways, you can't have your cake and eat it.

all we can do is abided by his wishes and remove the plugins in question, but they should stop using GPL based plugin too.

[reichi]

I am not doing that. I do not even build my own images, i rely on DMM-Experimentals ever since.

[andyblac]

I am not doing that. I do not even build my own images, i rely on DMM-Experimentals ever since.

but do they have GPL based Plugin's (i.e. none "Closed") in there feeds ?

[littlesat]

I strongly recommend that you suggest to change your mind...

Please note that your limitation is contra to the "You may not use this work for commercial purposes" idea behind Creative Commons. Your limitations made them commercial as they are only limited to use on DMM boxes... so you could also suggest the plugins are not licensed to run on a DMM box aswell -as- this is commercial use then as the limitation implies... I just give it a twist!!!

The only advise I could give you is going closed source... this is the best protection against that your work will not be used on non genuine hardware!

[reichi]

@littlesat: Maybe you're right.
But if a do any action, I may transfer all rights i currently own on that code to Dream and let them decide what's best.
I have to talk about that with the rest of the copyright owners.
Based on the discussion and immensly negative feedback here, that may really be the only way from now.

So yes... maybe my stuff will become part of the enigma2 core git. But I would be in no way happy that it had to come that way...
There are way better options (e.g. repsect my wishes) imho.

[VU+NL]

I once again went through all your posts, and I can only say that it is very sad to see that:
1- you only feel sorrow for DM & yourself;
2- you are clearly commercially involved, directly or indirectly, without having the guts to admit that;
3- you are not replying to any of the serious remarks and legitimate questions that are being made and asked.

Don't you think that changing your attitude into a more friendly, open, responsive way would be far more effective then spending your time on being rude and making ultimatums? Maybe that way people could start take you a bit serious /images/smiley/more/001.gif

And besides you can be pretty sure that (if they have any sense) DM's commercial guys don't like what you are invoking on them.......

And indeed, as Littlesat already explained: if you are trying to close an open source project in the way you are doing here, it should have been closed source in the first place.

Going to think about a trick to make my skins run only on non-DM-boxes..../images/smiley/more/004.gif.
But seriously: that's what this will all end up to.

[reichi]

I once again went through all your posts, and I can only say that it is very sad to see that:
1- you only feel sorrow for DM & yourself;

It's my good right, as well as you feel sorry for yourself if you can't get the latest webinterface versions anymore.
With the big difference that i own a lot of the code we are talking about.

2- you are clearly commercially involved, directly or indirectly, without having the guts to admit that;

Repeating false pretences doesn't make them any more true.
Just because you can only think of corruption, doesn't mean the rest of the world is corrupt as well (though i have to admit that the world is freaking corrup overall).

3- you are not replying to any of the serious remarks and legitimate questions that are being made and asked.

It's pretty simple. It's may stuff, I told you I don't want you to do what you do, i expect you to respect that.
If you really want to be 100% sure about if the license is legally ok or not, go pay a lawyer to tell you, I won't waste my money on that.

Don't you think that changing your attitude into a more friendly, open, responsive way would be far more effective then spending your time on being rude and making ultimatums? Maybe that way people could start take you a bit serious /images/smiley/more/001.gif

I did release ALL of my code as open source. How much code did you contribute to the whole project to se yourself in a position to sue me?

And indeed, as Littlesat already explained: if you are trying to close an open source project in the way you are doing here, it should have been closed source in the first place.

already commented that...

Going to think about a trick to make my skins run only on non-DM-boxes..../images/smiley/more/004.gif.

But seriously: that's what this will all end up to.

I don't care anymore, you had your chance, you spit on it. We're done.

END.


PS Something went wrong with my last answeer... here's the full version:

@littlesat: Maybe you're right.
But if a do any action, I may transfer all rights i currently own on that code to Dream and let them decide what's best.
I have to talk about that with the rest of the copyright owners.
Based on the discussion and immensly negative feedback here, that may really be the only way from now.

So yes... maybe my stuff will become part of the enigma2 core git. But I would be in no way happy that it had to come that way...
There are way better options (e.g. repsect my wishes) imho.

I am a big fan of open source.
Every dreambox-thing I spent my sparetime on has been released as open source (enigma2-plugin-extensions-webinterface, dreamDroid, e.g.).
And now that I am asking for the VERY first time to respect my wishes I am getting insulted and spurned.

I've spent THOUSANDS of hours on enigma2-stuff and all i get is this bullshit here.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Let me say one more thing:
So even the next big upgrade for dreamDroid will, most probably, not be open source anymore PLUS i will add a geniune check to it to disable it for any non-dreamboxes as a consequence to what happened here.
If people give a shit about what I, as code-owner, would like them to use my stuff for, I don't see why I i should ever share my code again.

As Giovanni Trappatoni once said: "Ich habe fertig".

[Henksat]

So even the next big upgrade for dreamDroid will, most probably, not be open source anymore PLUS i will add a geniune check to it to disable it for any non-dreamboxes as a consequence to what happened here.

Thant means you have DMM connections, probably they pay you for it. Otherwise, i can`t understand why you only wants it runs on DMM boxes.
Why aren`t you gonna develop for smartphones, especially your smartphone, so you can play alone with it with one hand.

[VU+NL]

ad 1: we'll see who the winner is in the long term. Recent history learns that it never is the party exercising DRM.....
And I can assure you that I'm not the one who is feeling sorrow. Not now and not later.

ad 2: there we go again: just being rude doesn't make you being right! And you think that going on denying it will make you being believed???

ad 3: I don't think we have to take that as a serious answer, do we? Looks more like a slip of your pen.

ad 4: You have no idea what I have done already. But where does the idea of suing come from? You are the one making ultimatums.......

But again: changing your attitude here would have done you much good. As it is now, hardly any one will take you serious.

[littlesat]

"I am a big fan of open source." and "adding Genuine Checks" are contra-indicated!!!

That is the whole start of the current discussion here... So please consider way what you might do with that.

But as you see PLi did directly respond to your whishes for respect and your plugins are not available anymore in the feeds of the VU and ET boxes. Milo was already busy do put back a Genuine check -but- not in the way you liked. He was convinced that he made an improvement which indeed might be shonky based on your comments given later.

I hope we can make some consenses here as Milo still avoids using your plugins on clone boxes and the VU and ET. This fully complies your license limitations.

In addition I think that what Milo did does not make it realistically easier for the community stop your work on foreign boxes. However this can be discussed

Probably Milo can add a limited license to the central genuine check so that you are not allowed to change any code in it. Does this make this more proven?

At the end your wishes can only be accomplished by going closed source. But where do you want to put the border here!!! Going closed source is something no one will benifit from.

I suggest you must have to be a bit more patient here.

[shoenix]

IMHO if you want full control over where and how your sources are used, go closed source. Depending on shaky libraries to enforce your allegiance and, as mentioned, making removing these checks as easy as flashing a dreambox because you publish your code as Open Source is questionable to say the least. Same goes for the arguments like 'You make it easy for my code to be abused'. Security by obscurity has been defeated years ago, so I pity anyone who relies on this.

True, removing the checks without discussing it first was not the best way to go, but as these things go it probably has valid reasons (stability, performance, transparency) and should be considered by the original developer before posting demands. And even questioning that PLi and other images have contributed to more hardware being sold only shows a limited view on the real world. PLi is by far the most stable and forth-going images available, and I would sell my 8000 if I was limited to the original firmware in an instant.

Too bad this happened the way it did, but I think the PLi team should honour the requests, put back the code and in between create alternative plugins which are true Open Source/GPL and no longer dependant on a developers who are more guided by principals than the greater good. Saves a lot of demotivation and frustration and allows that wasted energy to be used in a good way.

Just my few cents ..

[reichi]

I just don't want those patches in PLi's git . That's all.

I am really sorry if I went off the path in some of my answers here.
But please try to consider my position. I have been aggressivly pushed into a corner here, and i made the BIG mistake to react on that.

I would personally like to ask you to close this discussion.

If PLi is willing to follow my wishes (which pretty much looked that way on first glance). I'd gladly have a private discussion with the responsible guys about the issues.

After getting a short break and coming down, well I also might have to rethink some things I said before.
But I still may consider all given possiblities.
As i said yesterday, this aggravated the hell out of me and well... i did react inproperly at some places.
Sorry for that.

Closing or handing over the webinterface to Dream won't happen, as I personally do REALLY respect, that some of the code-owners do (pretty much for sure) do not want that.

This is leading to nothing but "war" and NONE of us could want that.

[pieterg]

same here, this overheated discussion is making things worse.
(with hindsight this should have been avoided by contacting us directly, instead of starting a public accusation)

But let's just stick to what we originally said, and forget the whole discussion which started afterwards.