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Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites?

Started by gorski, 01 Oct 2012 00:25

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#1 gorski

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 00:25

Hi, guys!

Just gonna have my T90 satellite dish installed, finally... Weather permitting, it should be finished on Tuesday. The installer is supposed to come tomorrow with the mast and to finish the preparatory work. So far, we arrested the chimney (see image attached), fixed the cables (3 long cables running down to the house, 2 for a twin tuner receiver [I still don't have it, as I am still searching, hehe] and one for me, not to bother the family when I need to play/test, scan the media etc.), plus I made all 36 of the short cables connecting LNBs.and switches (2 X Centauri 16in1 and one 4in1) [ouch, that hurt! :D]... So, it will have 16 LNBs (12 Twin and 4 Quad).

I am in Luxembourg and I wanna have everything I can possibly have - i.e. gonna insist with the installer my €s are well spent and he does a really good job for really good money... :D

So, I need - relatively speaking, of course - one or two weaker transponders to really test how well the dish has been set up/aligned and all the LNBs properly working... On Kingsat, Lyngsat and so on one doesn't really have these details easily accessible. And even if one goes one by one, the footprints are frequently not exactly correct. One can frequently get more (for instance, I was in Sweden before Lux and I got more in various positions) than it is published there, for a dish-size they claim... On top of it, T90 is a really good dish to pull in those weaker signals, so...

Here is the list of satellites I will be looking to get:

http://satlex.us/en/...country_code=lu[list=1]

[/list]

16) 30° West
15) 27.5° West
14) 24.5° West

13) 18° West

12) 11°+12.5° West

11) 8°+7° West

10) 5°+4° West

9) 0.8°+1° West° - central position

8) 4.8°+5° East

7) 7° East

6) 9°+10° East

5) 13° East

4) 16° East

3) 19.2° East

2) 23.5° East

1) 28.2°+28.5° East

[list=1]

[/list]
So, anyone who can help, from experience, with weaker transponders on these satellite positions, please? For instance, I know that on 28.2°+28.5° E, one has a narrow beam for BBC etc.

Also, he claims that 16° E won't be possible to get but I know it is possible with T90, since I got it in Sweden.

And any other relevant info, please...

Thanx a bunch, in advance!

Attached Files


Edited by gorski, 1 October 2012 - 00:26.

<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #2 Taykun345

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 08:49

You cannot have 30W and 28.2E at the same time on T-90. This is only possible if you extend T-90 original rail ...
Army MoodBlue HD skin modification by me: https://github.com/T...-MoodBlueHD-mod
Matrix10 MH-HD2 skin modification by me: https://github.com/B...-MX-HD2-OpenPli
MetrixHD skin modification by me: https://github.com/T...xHD-WPstyle-mod
Slovenian translation for OpenPLi E2: https://github.com/T...ion-for-OpenPLi

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #3 hemertje

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 12:01

You cannot have 30W and 28.2E at the same time on T-90. This is only possible if you extend T-90 original rail ...


Have à look on my other website:

http://dreambox.heme...57-wavefrontier

on the Glassfibre 1GB DVB-C...

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #4 Taykun345

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 12:28

You have nice setup but as i already said. You have extended rails and only with this setup you can get 28.2E to 30W.
Army MoodBlue HD skin modification by me: https://github.com/T...-MoodBlueHD-mod
Matrix10 MH-HD2 skin modification by me: https://github.com/B...-MX-HD2-OpenPli
MetrixHD skin modification by me: https://github.com/T...xHD-WPstyle-mod
Slovenian translation for OpenPLi E2: https://github.com/T...ion-for-OpenPLi

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #5 hemertje

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 12:41

Was mentioned as an example ;)

Ps this is not mine setup

on the Glassfibre 1GB DVB-C...

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #6 Henksat

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 13:07

Ps this is not mine setup


You`re setup has no extended rail (recommended) and is tuned by Henksat............. :P

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #7 Erik Slagter

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Posted 1 October 2012 - 15:42

Anyway, about the 16E, I don't see why you couldn't receive 16E, but I must say reception is quite poor over here. But I must also say I have a roof a bit in the way.

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
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Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #8 gorski

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Posted 3 October 2012 - 00:04

Hey, guys, anyone with a list of weaker transponders, please? Urgently needed...

Taykun, I know, I have had the system since 2008, for almost 3 years in Stockholm.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Btw, there is a company in Luxembourg which redesigned the dish and extended the second reflector and rail - guess why...

Posted Image

Erik, the angle of that satellite is allegedly different. But I had it in Stockholm, so... dunno why he says no can do it in Luxembourg...?!?

Anyway, the basis is up, now the LNBs and cabling to switches, then tuning and fine-tuning... Wish me luck...

Attached Files


<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #9 gorski

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Posted 3 October 2012 - 00:09

Forgot: I didn't get the email notification of replies... :(

Here are more images, if it will help DIYers... ;)

Attached Files


<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #10 Henksat

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Posted 3 October 2012 - 00:56

Hey, guys, anyone with a list of weaker transponders, please? Urgently needed...


You don`t need that, i haven`t a list you want.
Gorski, but you don`t need such a list, believe me.

Just use the basics to adjust your Wavefrontier, see this for more info: http://satlex.be/fr/home.html

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #11 gorski

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Posted 3 October 2012 - 11:12

Thank you, Henk, I know that, as you can see in the top message... ;)

However, from the first one (I was helping out a bit when it was done) I know there is a difference in how you set it up...

It can be quick and generally OK but if you want to really nail it, then you must fine tune it. In that case it's the weakest transponders you need... they do count! I asked the guy to come back with this in mind, having prepared the list of such TPs. Sadly, I lost it when I moved and now I can't do it, as I don't have the dish.

I have given the example in the top post - BBC TP on Astra 2. You can easily get the stronger TPs there but BBC is a tougher nut to crack. Narrow beam towards the Isles...

I had similar cases on, for instance, 4W, 7/8W and so forth. I hope it's clearer now what I want to achieve... :)

Edited by gorski, 3 October 2012 - 11:14.

<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #12 Erik Slagter

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 13:15

Anyway, the basis is up, now the LNBs and cabling to switches, then tuning and fine-tuning... Wish me luck...

Cool...

I can see you don't have a problem with a roof, like I do...

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #13 Erik Slagter

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 13:18

BTW Gorski, I think you will have to try and error, I think the reception of certain frequencies may very well vary from location to location. I have quite different reception on certain transponders from the other Wavefrontier owners here, both better and worse, all of them are optimally aligned...

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #14 gorski

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 17:32

Thanx!

Maybe they are optimally aligned but maybe improvements can be made...?

It's tricky, going through all those parameters that a good signal meter has - and when you start tightening up the nuts - off it goes... and so on...

I will need quite a bit of good luck, by the looks of it... weather is crap and installer is not calling, grrr...
<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #15 Erik Slagter

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 17:42

It's tricky, going through all those parameters that a good signal meter has - and when you start tightening up the nuts - off it goes... and so on...

Yep, how do you think it comes I've spent so many days and hours aligning ;) "Good" is not good enough for me, it must be "perfect". At least on 28.2 and 23.5, with the newer satellites, I get 17 dB SNR reception, enigma calls that "100%" ;)

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #16 gorski

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 18:00

Heh, I hope my installer is as fussy.... ermmmm,., sorry, as pedantic... ermmm, nope, sorry again, as thorough and methodical as you! :D
<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #17 Erik Slagter

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 18:13

It's the result that counts. This experience has learned me that you can never predict or calculate the ultimate alignment. For instance, the documentation says: align the disk (rotation-wise) using the middle lnb. This may not always be the best choice, especially if you have a strong signal at the lnb at the center and a weaker signal at a lnb somewhere else. In that case it may be better to use a lnb with weaker reception for alignment of the dish. In the same corner, the frontier is designed for satellites that are exactly located in the center of the clark belt. In practise this is never the case. You cannot rotate the dish in such a way that all lnb's are at an optimal offset from the baseline. For that, I'd be happy if wavefrontier would ship lnb fittings that are adjustable in height, just like the multi-lnb-fitting for Visiosat dishes. So, to have the best reception on weaker position, trading off a bit of signal strength on strong positions, you will have to try-and-error, and that's why it's takes so much time. Several times I even turned the dish and repositioned all the lnb's and yes, it can help for the weak positions to have them in the center of the dish. Or at least at a point where the roof has the least impact (in my case).

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #18 gorski

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Posted 4 October 2012 - 19:15

I hear you!

And I agree: with T90 even 1.5 degree difference can be seen/caught by the same LNB! There is room to play with it all, for sure!

The beauty of this beast is in its maths and possibility to compensate a bit. Redundancy, in a matter of speaking, is there to be used...

So, I intend to give the 16E (because of its special angle) and extreme positions (28E and 30W) the most time and effort, give them the helping hand they need, start from them, when it comes to serious fine-tuning, since 13, 19, 5 E, as well as my central position 1W etc. will be strong enough, I bet! This dish gives more than its size in "usual" terms, i.e. compared to ordinary dishes...

The Lux company that re-designed T90 could - if they listened to you - improve it further still by re-thinking the LNB holders. Cool! As an idea...

I would add to it: make them be as close as 2 degrees difference, if necessary: for instance - 7 and 5E!
<span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'>Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men, even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance..." I. Kant, "Political writings" (1784)</span><br /> <br /><span style='font-family: comic sans ms,cursive'><a class='bbc_url' href='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://eserver.org/p...lightenment.txt'>http://eserver.org/p...ent.txt</a>'><a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a>'>http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html</a></a> - the jolly text on Enlightenment, at the basis of Modernity...</span>

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #19 Erik Slagter

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Posted 5 October 2012 - 09:04

Are you a professional tv watcher? :D

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Henksat and colleagues: weak(er) transponders on satellites? #20 Erik Slagter

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Posted 5 October 2012 - 09:07

I would add to it: make them be as close as 2 degrees difference, if necessary: for instance - 7 and 5E!

Something like this? ;)

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* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

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