19 replies to this topic

[proprog]

I recently bought a vu+ ultimo and together with openpli it's a great device.

However my wife complained about zapping in the multi graph epg where she thought it was more natural to use the OK button. Below are my minor changes to GraphMultiEpg and GraphMultiEpgConfig to make it configurable to use the OK button instead of the RED button to zap.

Something anyone else is interested in or should I just run it locally to keep my wife happy?

GraphMultiEpgConfig

57	 <!		 self.list.append(getConfigListEntry(_("Use OK to zap"), config.misc.graph_mepg.ok_2_zap))

GraphMultiEpg

47  <! config.misc.graph_mepg.ok_2_zap = ConfigYesNo(default = False)
706   *	 if config.misc.graph_mepg.ok_2_zap.getValue():  *	 ZAP = 1
707  <!		 RED = 2
708  <!	 else:
709  <!		 RED = 1
749  <!		 okFunc = self.eventSelected
750  <!		 okDesc = "Show detailed event info"
751  <!		 redFunc = self.zapTo
752  <!		 redDesc = "Zap to selected channel"
753  <!		 if self.RED==2:
754  <!			 okFunc = self.zapTo
755  <!			 okDesc = "Zap to selected channel"
756  <!			 redFunc = self.eventSelected
757  <!			 redDesc = "Show detailed event info"
761   *				 "ok":   (okFunc,  _(okDesc))  *	"ok":  (self.eventSelected, _("Show detailed event info"))
768   *				 "red": (redFunc, _(redDesc)),  * "red": (self.zapTo,			  _("Zap to selected channel")),
954   *		 if self.zapFunc:  *		 if self.zapFunc and self.key_red_choice == self.ZAP:
1028   *		 if self.key_red_choice != self.RED:  *		 if self.key_red_choice != self.ZAP:
1029  <!			 if (self.RED==1):
1031   *			 else:  *			 self.key_red_choice = self.ZAP
1032  <!				 self["key_red"].setText(_("Info"))
1033  <!			 self.key_red_choice = self.RED

Edited by proprog, 6 November 2012 - 20:14.

[littlesat]

OK was more logical to get more details..... RED was by design zap here...

Edited by littlesat, 6 November 2012 - 22:43.

[proprog]

OK was more logical to get more details..... RED was by design zap here...

Thx for the feedback. Although I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Do you prefer the current setup where RED is zap and can't see any reason to make it configurable? Or are you just calling my wife illogical;)

[littlesat]

We want to avoid as much configs as possible... I hope you understand. (there is already too much stuff configurable).

The main "goal" for the GME is not zapping - but to "browse" through EPG...

To have now/next EPG and zap functionality you can use the normal channellist...

The GME has a separate config options via the menu button... so please let us sleep on it...

Edited by littlesat, 7 November 2012 - 16:02.

[proprog]

Thx for the more detailed explanation.

I use the GME to zap all the time (but maybe that is because I now can use OK to zap:)

More seriously I appreciate that different remotes have different key setups that makes it more or less logical to use RED/OK to zap. And of course it's also subjective how you want to navigate.

That's why I thought a config was perfect. And if you don't want it you wont even notice it as the default functionality is the current setup with RED to zap.

Actually I always thought that one of the main "selling points" of firmware like openpli was their configurablity. But as a newbie I hope there are no hard feelings.

[littlesat]

I think you should adapt.... for one user this is a nogo...

Or try if it is possible to change with MQB plugin or so...

Edited by littlesat, 8 November 2012 - 12:34.

[BuGless]

MQB only works at the top screen, not when you're in an OSD screen (AFAICS).

As to the proposed change:
a. I understand the reluctance to change it for the default OpenPLi (backward compatibility and avoiding bloat).
b. I do agree that your wife is very logical and that the GUI is confusing at this point.

I.e. good GUI design (IMHO) involves being able to use the Ok button to zap on all screens that show a cursor and different channels.
The fact that she has never used OpenPLi before, makes her an excellent candidate to determine what the GUI should behave like for an untrained user.

I've toyed with the same problem and ideas, and I haven't settled on the optimal solution yet, but the options that seem more logical than the red=zap option are:
1. Ok: zap and go fullscreen.
2. Ok: zap but do not go fullscreen yet, press Ok long to go fullscreen; or press exit after Ok to go fullscreen.
3. Ok: info, Ok again: zap to fullscreen.
4. Ok: just do a preview zap only, i.e. pressing exit will go fullscreen to the old channel.

I personally tend to prefer option 2, I think.
Getting more info would then be accomplished by pressing Info instead.
The red button can still be kept for backwards compatibility to mean zap.

This is, by no means, a plea to change it in OpenPLi; but since it is a rather serious unintuitivity (IMO) in the default UI, I probably eventually will maintain my own patched version if the default OpenPLi does not support it in one way or the other. Just consider it an opinion.

[littlesat]

The zap and not go to the full screen is also there... that is the TV button... (preview).

But at the endeffect we are changing how Enigma2 is build.... and in any EPG page the OK button is go to further detail.... and that is anywhere in E2...

So changing this the red/ok button should be swapped any where and then you start to open a "hell" in case you change it and more a "hell" to make it configurable.

I think simply pressing RED as it is and get used to this is the best solution.... (it is there that way in Enigma for 10 years)...

And the patch above is not the solution... the config e.g. cannot be changed correctly instantly for example....

And for zapping the normal channel selector can be used...via the up/down buttons. It also gives you now EPG and for the selected channel also the next info... The MGE is intended to get EPG info and not as zapping window...

Edited by littlesat, 8 November 2012 - 13:29.

[BuGless]

The zap and not go to the full screen is also there... that is the TV button... (preview).

Ok, didn't know that. But that is exactly the point, of course. The functionality is there, I agree, but it is non-intuitive.

But at the endeffect we are changing how Enigma2 is build.... and in any EPG page the OK button is go to further detail.... and that is anywhere in E2...

Well, I can tell you how it looks to an untrained user (up to a certain extent, I've used it too much myself by now to be completely ignorant):
While in the MultiGraphEPG, you expect the Ok button to:
- behave just like in the channelselection list.
- provide further detail. Further detail at that point means (to the ignorant user): I already have the description of the program, so the next further detail that I want to see is an actual picture of the running channel to determine if switching to this channel is actually worth my while.

So changing this the red/ok button should be swapped any where and then you start to open a "hell" in case you change it and more a "hell" to make it configurable.

I think simply pressing RED as it is and get used to this is the best solution.... (it is there that way in Enigma for 10 years)...

Well, I understand the pain, but for a device which is supposed to be idiot proof (people know TVs and remotes long before they start with enigma) I would have to say that providing a seamless transition from a regular TV/remote to a enigma should trump the "it has been that way in enigma for 10 years" card. It would mean that at the birth of enigma, someone didn't think long and hard enough about GUI design. I'd say it's never too late improve on this historic mistake. TVs and TV-remotes have been around for way longer than 10 years, so I'd think that *that* would be the reference implementation, not what enigma offered as defaults for the past 10 years.

[littlesat]

EPG = EPG then OK is more detail about that service... (NOTE: You select OK on an event and not on a channel - in the multi-EPG channel-EPG and all other EPGs in enigma 2 this is the same...)
ChannelList = Channellist then OK is zap to that channel... (NOTE: You select OK on an channel/service not on an event)

The way it is made now is logical - the other way is not logical...

So as it is is idiote prove. That someone mis use the GME and expect it is the channelselector is another case.... I suggest most likely Enigma starters could underwent this experience.

.... RED-GREEN-YELLOW-BLUE describes what else you can do...

Yesterday I tried to made it configurable. But during doing this I discovered the impact.... and it is not easy as it should be made consequent on any EPG place and in the correct way.... for me not wurth the time as from the ground it does not add real functionality.... and in addition for me and more users of E2 the OK button is more info in EPG... and never a ZapTo...

It would mean that at the birth of enigma, someone didn't think long and hard enough about GUI design

I suggest this statement is somehow true.... but we've to live with it... But unless this Enigma is successfull - so it is still not to bad... I know with some other set top boxes you do even not have a MGE... and if you have it you even can not zap - only get more info on the selected event...

Edited by littlesat, 8 November 2012 - 14:04.

[BuGless]

EPG = EPG then OK is more detail about that service... (NOTE: You select OK on an event and not on a channel - in the multi-EPG channel-EPG and all other EPGs in enigma 2 this is the same...)
ChannelList = Channellist then OK is zap to that channel... (NOTE: You select OK on an channel/service not on an event)

The way it is made now is logical - the other way is not logical...

To a programmer, yes, you're right. To a user, not necessarily.

So as it is is idiote prove. That someone mis use the GME and expect it is the channelselector is another case.... I suggest most likely Enigma starters could underwent this experience.

Well, true, they (ab)use the GME as a channelselector. OTOH, if people seem to be doing that, they have a reason for that, it's because they either find it convenient or logical. The tool should fit the needs of the user in this case, not the other way around. The input of beginners is most valuable in this case: anything they say or think is mandatory and should override everything any experienced user thinks. This is the way good UIs are designed.

Yesterday I tried to made it configurable. But during doing this I discovered the impact.... and it is not easy as it should be made consequent on any EPG place and in the correct way.... for me not wurth the time as from the ground it does not add real functionality.... and in addition for me and more users of E2 the OK button is more info in
EPG... and never a ZapTo...

Fair enough. Well, I haven't thought it through entirely either. When I eventually get around to it, I might offer some concrete code to make it suite my needs, maybe we can discuss then if and how it can be integrated.

[littlesat]

To a programmer, yes, you're right. To a user, not necessarily.

I do not agree...... I do not know any GME on other devices were OK = ZAP... always it is more info....

And I think there are more important thinks to "tweak" then continue this discussion...

The tool should fit the needs of the user in this case, not the other way around.

This is already the fact. With the help button everything is explained.... OK detailed info..., RED zap...

Edited by littlesat, 8 November 2012 - 15:32.

[Meega]

I don't mind the change to the ok button either.
I always scroll with the down or up arrow and press the ok button to zap and then I find out i must press the red button

The info of the program is already on the basic page
And when i want to read more i press the info button again.

[m466e]

In my opinion this would be a good addition to the epg as long as it is configurable.
On Humax bxr hd+ one of the few good things in the gme is that pressing the ok button will zap if the current program is selected.
Having to press the red button to zap when in epg has annoyed me ever since I got my first dreambox some years ago.
For some strange reason I'm never getting used to it :-)

Please give it another thought.

[littlesat]

as long as it is configurable

Then you're not convinced.... (LOL)

But I'll do some test tomorrow... I do not know by head if the EPG button itself is doing something now.. If it is doing nothing it can be considered to use OK to zap and the EPG button (and INFO button if you remove have both) to get more info on the selected event... Then also nothing is configurable... and the RED button is workless...(I can make preview of it... same as TV button - or what is now in the EPG button to RED)

It is just a suggestion.... I'm not able to check it now but as far I remember the EPG button is free in GME If the EPG button is free than this is the reason why I had to sleep on it.... We must avoid configs as without configs everyone can profit from features without configuration

Edited by littlesat, 9 November 2012 - 09:50.

[blzr]

epg(info) button calls detailed event description (eventview screen), exactly what OK button does...

[m466e]

Then you're not convinced.... (LOL)

touché :-)

No actually I am convinced. I just think there's a greater chance everybody's happy if it's configurable.

Thank's for looking into it!

[Meega]

@Littlesat

Thanks for the change!

[m466e]

gee,. thanks littlesat!
..and proprog´s wife :-)

[proprog]

Many thx littlesat. Works like a charm.