109 replies to this topic

[Pr2]

We don't need another key assigned since P+ is doing it the right way.

I never understand when opening the channel list with the up (or down) why it also change the cursor position in the list, for me this rather always look like a bug that is there for a very long time now. I see absolutely no advantages to this behavior, I don't undestand the logic behing this.

 

When you press EPG, it highlight the channel you are on. Pressing OK you are the info on the current channel. Audio is on the current channel, etc...

I have lot of option available into channel list + Menu button that I'd like to use on the currentely watching channel.

 

Do you think logical to have to press UP then DOWN then MENU to get access to those option in the current channel?

For me it is not, I call the channel list UP arrow then I press MENU, this is the logical way of doing it.

 

We don't press the UP arrow to change channel we press it to open up the channel list selection, nothing more, nothing less.

To change channel we have left/right arrow.

 

Lets call it ergonomics... current way of working is not ergonomics.

 

Pr2

[Robinson]

I fully agree with Pr2.

Littlesat and others who care for PLi HD skin, please give a serious consideration for this menu-configured option:

 

UP/DOWN keys:

- Open Channel list and go UP/DOWN

- Open Channel list and stay on the current channel.

[littlesat]

Why do you have issues with this? Are you getting used with a different user interface....

Only showing channelselection with up/down keys do make no sense at all. The current ergonimics are good since enigma(2) exists and that is already more then 10 years.... so the only argument I can guess is that you were used to something different.

 

And the way it is now is ergonimics. E.g. zap three channels ahead is now 3x left or 3x down,then ok... you want to change that in 4x down and ok... This gives me a really bad feeling (but posibly I'm used for this for a longer time).

 

Several people, several meanings, endless solutions. that is the issue here....

 

Then I suggest we could better go for some kind of smart issue if you want to have the funtionality to get the channel selector.

Edited by littlesat, 8 October 2013 - 20:35.

[Robinson]

No, I was never used to that. I only used Newnigma2 before OpenPLI and I think it worked the same way there, which I did not like either.

Then I tried OpenPLi and stayed with it. In the meantime, however, I had a chance to see OpenViX working on Solo2, which I did not like, but UP and DOWN keys worked exactly as they should in my opinion - they just opened channel list. Although I think it is somehow configurable in their menu.

I know we disagree here and I will never be able to convince you but please consider making the keys configurable - that's all I ask.

[Pr2]

I agree, I know that changing this behavior will not please old user of E2 that's why at the very beginning I ask to be able to customise this easily by have an hidden parameter to set in the /etc/enigma2/settings file... and if GUI creator want to include this in the menu it would indeed be great.

 

I don't want to impose my way of working with the UP (or Down) arrow to everybody, I just ask to have a way to customise it... changing the keymap.xml yes but at each upgrade there is a risk to have it overwritten by something else... using MQB quite heavy just to change 2 keys...

 

By not willing to change a 10 years old key behavior they would have no progress in IT world.

 

Honestly when you zap for 2 or 3 channel up or down don't you rather use the left / right arrows?

[littlesat]

We prefer not to use thousands of extra configurations. And please note adding a config to sattisfy everyones wishes is the easiest thing to do.... (and in fact you do not solve anything).

 

I believe that it is better to put new functionality under a seperate button or something different so everyone can profit right away from functionality - without the need for configs (to change behavior). As experiment the ChannelList without changing the selected service is available via the green button tomorrow (in case it is not reverted as in between we have some discussions about this one about this).

 

You asked for giving the B+ and B- buttons the same functionality.... in fact reduce the functionality...

Edited by littlesat, 8 October 2013 - 22:54.

[Pr2]

Hi,

 

If you go into the built-in help of Openpli you will see that normally green button is already affected to something else.

For me you can free up the green button, I won't use it to access the channel list.

I will implement my own solution to solve this bug.

 

Thanks anyway,

 

Pr2

[littlesat]

Sorry it is not a bug... it is intended and working this way in Enigma(2) for more than 10 years. That is also the reason why we are not that quick to make such changes. Please note that the green button is just free 99.99% of times... it has only function when you use German Pay Per View.

[Rob van der Does]

it has only function when you use German Pay Per View.

Subservices you mean? There are more channels that have subservices. So a user-config would be needed to set green to subservices or open-channel-list

[Robinson]

Subservices you mean? There are more channels that have subservices. So a user-config would be needed to set green to subservices or open-channel-list

 

If a user-config is unavoidable, it might as well be for UP/DOWN keys, as I suggested above.

[Trial]

Hi,

why not using MQB that is the purpose of this plugin. All possible wishes embedded in E2 and you need 256MB flash.

 

Why solve something which is already solved?

 

ciao

[Rob van der Does]

why not using MQB that is the purpose of this plugin. All possible wishes embedded in E2 and you need 256MB flash. 
Why solve something which is already solved?

Exactly; a flexible solution that suits all needs & wishes.

[littlesat]

Or try Pauli Plugin.... This one is less agresive in patching around in E2...

Edited by littlesat, 9 October 2013 - 08:10.

[Rob van der Does]

Not sure why? Pauli is limited and MQB is on the market for years and has always worked fine (including the restore function in case of a reflashed image).

[littlesat]

Worked fine does not mean that it is structured and not patching around... But indeed no real patch in standard OpenPLi is required as for these fine tuning things there do exist plugins.

As far I understand Pauli does only manupulate the keymap.xml...

[Pr2]

For the PiP exit feature there was no  problem to implement an option, why not for up/down behavior?

 

But as I already told you, I don't want to overload my box with lots of plugin that you don't know what they are changing in your basic configuration, so no problem, I will fix it myself with scripting.

But discussing around up/down button arise a new bug, I will open up a new discussion about it.

[littlesat]

Because we do not made these kind of changes right a way. It should be properly and objectivaly weighted. And please stop calling it a bug... as it isn't a bug. It is simply something you do net get used to. I note again this is how enigma works for more than 10 years. And this is really the first time someone is arguing about this (note the patch itself to add a config for this is the most easy way).

 

And I asked it again.... beside just "do not like" and "it is a bug"... what are the real arguments to change this behavior -or- as compromise make it configurable?

 

    def switchChannelUp(self):
        if config.usage.zap_when_entering_servicelist.value:
            self.servicelist.moveUp()
        self.session.execDialog(self.servicelist)

    def switchChannelDown(self):
        if config.usage.zap_when_entering_servicelist.value:
            self.servicelist.moveDown()
        self.session.execDialog(self.servicelist)

 

Edited by littlesat, 9 October 2013 - 08:45.

[Rob van der Does]

Well, I can assure you that there ar enot that many E2 users that like the open-and-shift-one 'feature'.

The same applies to CH+ buttons doing Bouquet+ (and don't say that's because DM designed it that way years ago; there are not many DM-designs that have survived in PLi nowadays). And where do you find B+/- written on a R/C button (apart form the DM's)?

But again: it's all fine to me, as I always use MQB to change and add functions.

[WanWizard]

The only reason for popping the service selector up is to be able to zap based on the channels current program info (which you have next to the channel name). I can see in the infobar what I'm currently watching, I don't need the service selector for that. This request would mean an additional keypress every time I want to zap...

 

I don't quite understand. What you are talking about now, I think, is zapping channels using LEFT / RIGHT keys, and not UP and DOWN. We are not proposing any change to LEFT / RIGHT keys. We are only trying to show arguments that it is better to have "show channel list with a highlighted channel currently being watched" rather than "show channel list with a confusingly different channel highlighted than currently being watched".

 

I meant exactly what you wrote. I use UP / DOWN to glance at the program descriptions, then select a program to zap to (2 UP or 5 DOWN as you said). I am NEVER intrested in the current channel, I was watching that so I know what it is, so I don't care what is highlighted.

 

I hardly ever use LEFT or RIGHT for zapping, my "English" bouquet (which is current most of the time) contains 250+ channels, and both SD and HD versions, which means zapping per channel takes ages, and I never interested in the previous or next channel (which is the SD, HD or +1 for the channel I was watching).

[Pr2]

Littlesat,

 

I already explained the argument but, again, I will try to summarize them:

- I use quite often the Menu key into the channel list to create favorites, add parental control, create alternate, ... all the option that are in the channel list "option" menu.

So watching a channel I expect to press up or down and then menu to perform action on the currently watched channel. The current way of working is error prone since you are no longer on the same channel as the one you think you are if you forgot this "non ergonomics" behavior.

- When you are on the first channel of a favorite you press the up arrow you get back on the last one of the list.

- Why some action are assigned to 'strange' key in E2 (like the yellow one for example) because DM release a product with a crappy RCU with lot of button missing, so they have to find trick to implement feature on key not existing on there RCU.

- I heard that other image already fixed this behavior and people are quite happy with it.

- Believe me, you will increase the woman acceptance factor (WAF) by changing this.

 

Your argument to keep it this way are:

- it prevents you to press 1 key when you want to go up, I can told you that this way of working is making more click than needed since we always need to do up and down and menu to be sure to be on the right channel to perform action. But if you press the button and keep the button press you will have the same result, it will open up the channel and go to the uppers channels! So you don't lose any key press by changing this, only keypress duration.

- It works like this since 10 years.

 

I don't think that because it works that way since 10 years is a valid argument no to think to improve things, otherwise we will never see any evolution in it world, no GUI, no mouse, no touchscreen. Or in the windows world you can get stuck to the nice interface of Windows 2.1 forever?

http://www.jblanco.o...is/1versw2.html

 

Why not create a poll on the forum to ask end-user if they want or not to have a parameter for this behavior?

 

Moreover from my very first post I don't want to impose this behavior to everybody, i can understand that some people are used with this behavior, I just ask if it is possible to select the behavior in an easy way and I would like that on your side you also understand that this behavior can upset people that use a lot the Menu button in the channel list.

 

Pr2

P.S.: I just installed MQB from the feed: enigma2-plugin-extensions-multiquickbutton in the opkg it states it is 2.7 and in the GUI it states 2.4 and this 2.4 version I don't find how to change the up / down behavior (tested on VU+ Duo²). Pressing EPG no longer lead me to MultiEPG graphique due to MQB and it is not possible to define EPG short only EPG Long is foreseen.