65 replies to this topic

[WanWizard]

No you don't, you have your opinion, and you're now pissed you can't enforce your opinion on someone else.

 

This is what happens with opinions, people can have different onces...

[malakudi]

That is not relevant. You make assumptions.

 

You can say "All cars have a spare wheel in the boot". And you can assume that when you buy a new car, it will have a spare wheel in the boot. Which is the wrong assumption, and if it turns out not to be the case, it is your problem as consumer, not the manufacturer.

 

No STB manufacturer has to put in big letters on the box "THIS BOX CAN NOT RECORD" because you happen to know similar boxes that can, and assume this one will be the same.

 

Well, while you are right in general, the correct analogy in the VU+ case is "All cars have four wheels" or "All cars have a steering wheel", because, in the enigma2 world of receivers, there has been NONE stb that could not record or stream. All enigma2 receivers till VU+ released Solo SE and Zero had recording (and streaming) capability. Even the ancient DM500 (enigma1) could record. So, Rob has some right in his point of view.

 

But we miss the point here. The problem are the stupid laws, not VU+ or the customers. Circumventing paying taxes that go the the lobbists of MAFIAA is a good thing.

Edited by malakudi, 14 September 2015 - 20:56.

[Rob van der Does]

That is not relevant. You make assumptions.
 
You can say "All cars have a spare wheel in the boot". And you can assume that when you buy a new car, it will have a spare wheel in the boot. Which is the wrong assumption, and if it turns out not to be the case, it is your problem as consumer, not the manufacturer.
 
No STB manufacturer has to put in big letters on the box "THIS BOX CAN NOT RECORD" because you happen to know similar boxes that can, and assume this one will be the same.

 
Well, while you are right in general, the correct analogy in the VU+ case is "All cars have four wheels" or "All cars have a steering wheel", because, in the enigma2 world of receivers, there has been NONE stb that could not record or stream. All enigma2 receivers till VU+ released Solo SE and Zero had recording (and streaming) capability. Even the ancient DM500 (enigma1) could record. So, Rob has some right in his point of view.

Yep, exactly what I was saying, but what wasn't getting through for some reason.

[Rob van der Does]

But we miss the point here. The problem are the stupid laws, not VU+ or the customers. Circumventing paying taxes that go the the lobbists of MAFIAA is a good thing.

Whether you like a law or not; you'll have to obey it.
So while I agree with you that it is impossible to justify the 'recording tax', I do pay it for all devices that can record on can be recorded on. There are more laws I would like to be changed, but apart from making the correct choice during elections, there's not much I can do about them.

Edited by Rob van der Does, 14 September 2015 - 21:09.

[malakudi]

 

But we miss the point here. The problem are the stupid laws, not VU+ or the customers. Circumventing paying taxes that go the the lobbists of MAFIAA is a good thing.

Whether you like a law or not; you'll have to obey it.
So while I agree with you that it is impossible to justify the 'recording tax', I do pay it for all devices that can record on can be recorded on. There are more laws I would like to be changed, but apart from making the correct choice during elections, there's not much I can do about them.

 

 

People should (and have to) disobey laws that go against the "common sense of justice".

[Rob van der Does]

That's were I disagree.

I tend to be a very loyal civilian.

It would be a mess if we all would do what you suggest; and in the end it would prevent the 'injustice' from being reverted.

[Erik Slagter]

People should (and have to) disobey laws that go against the "common sense of justice".

If you go and determine for yourself what laws you like to obey (because they suit your interests) and what not, I recommend making no laws at all, as it's pointless. If you disagree with a law, fight it using the appropriate ways. If you don't succeed, live with it. That's how democracy works.

[malakudi]

So, you suggest people in China to not try avoiding the internet filters their goverment enforces. Or you suggest that what Juliane Assange or Edward Snowden did was wrong. They broke laws in order to present to the public the bigger picture.

 

I will say it once more. People should (and have to) disobey laws that go against the "common sense of justice". The "common sense of justice" is not about my interests. It's what people believe is right and wrong. It is about ethics. And laws cannot change ethics.

Edited by malakudi, 15 September 2015 - 20:16.

[Rob van der Does]

Sorry to say, but your 'ethics' is chaos and anarchy.

[malakudi]

Sorry to say, but your 'ethics' is chaos and anarchy.

 

You didn't answer about Snowden and Assange. Their actions lead to "chaos and anarchy"? What about the disobedience to laws from black people in the 50s and 60s in USA? What about Mahatma Gandhi? Their actions led to "chaos and anarchy"?

 

Better educate yourself about Civil Disobedience ...

[Rob van der Does]

Naah, no education needed (at least not in this area). Let's not exaggerate: paying taxes that have been implemented in a democratic way can't possibly be compared with Apartheid.

Whatever your personal opinion on the matter, I can't see any valid reason not to pay those taxes (although I loath them). And especially no valid reason for a company to avoid them by crippling a box and repairing it the same day.

And let's face it: the only one gaining from this, is the manufacturer, as he creates an artificial beneficial position compared with his competitors.

[malakudi]

The "democratic" way is the lobbists from MAFIAA paying money to politicians in order to promote their interests? That's no democracy my friend. You live in an illusion of democracy. Banks and big companies rule the world. There is no democracy, either in Europe or in USA. You fail to pay a tax, you might go to prison. Bankers destroy global economy? They get funding. Sure, this is democracy.

 

Anyway, we are way off topic and the forum doesn't like political discussion. So I end it here.

Edited by malakudi, 16 September 2015 - 15:32.

[Pr2]

Can you please move this thread to The Lounge because it is now totally out of control.

[Erik Slagter]

Agreed! (for once, with Pr2).

[Just Me]

But whatever the reason is openpli will get the blame for it since VU+ is perfect since they sell cheap shitty boxes (hardware and drivers)

So which manufacturer that is supported by OpenPLi would you recommend? Vu+ is shitty as you said, xtrend uses security boards and delivers shitty drivers as well, Dream Multimedia is closed source so shame on you, Dream. So the only manufacturers that are left is Mut@nt and Formuler. So Mut@nt and Formuler delivers great hardware and excellent driver etc. support? 

Edited by Just Me, 19 September 2015 - 16:45.

[theparasol]

Perhaps we should start a poll for this... At this moment I only know what not to buy. But I must say my xp1000 is running great. No personal experience with Mut@nt and Formuler...

[Erik Slagter]

Step #1 for being properly informed is to consult the comparison chart: http://openpli.org/wiki/comparison

Edited by Erik Slagter, 19 September 2015 - 18:40.

[Rob van der Does]

Step #1 for being properly informed is to consult the comparison chart: http://openpli.org/wiki/comparison

Hehe, but that doesn't mention the Solo SE being crippled....

And for the Zero there is no mentioning of a real problem either......

Edited by Rob van der Does, 19 September 2015 - 20:21.

[robertut]

Mutant, Formuler - these are noname brands in many parts of the world. Including many European countries. You simply cannot find such boxes anywhere in the shops.

 

 

 

 

But whatever the reason is openpli will get the blame for it since VU+ is perfect since they sell cheap shitty boxes (hardware and drivers)

So which manufacturer that is supported by OpenPLi would you recommend? Vu+ is shitty as you said, xtrend uses security boards and delivers shitty drivers as well, Dream Multimedia is closed source so shame on you, Dream. So the only manufacturers that are left is Mut@nt and Formuler. So Mut@nt and Formuler delivers great hardware and excellent driver etc. support? 

 

[Rob van der Does]

Yep, that is indeed a problem. Many brands use specific brand-names for different parts of the world.