644 replies to this topic

[albsky]

 

Thats exactly my point. Maybe other manufacturer support complete dvbapi and comply to Openpli coding standard because they dont invest in hardware innovation like vu+ does. Seams obvious that its way more difficult as well as expensive to be first in combination with new bcm hardware. Pli team should also take this important point in account.

I heard this layman argument before on another forum.That is completely far fetched and well pushed by the marketing people of the manufacturer.

The all misinterpreted assumption here is that VU+ is the innovator by using new chips employed in their stbs.

Remember ? They are only reselling bcm chip boards with remote, power supply, and black "sexy" packaging and top of that the marketing

promise some of the proceeds go to the hungry children of this world.

 

So believe me or not I don't believe in this company anymore - considering you can buy a soc chip for less then EUR 100 +/- some other parts which are not making the difference to EUR 500. Where are those moneys going? Are you paying for brick and mortar manufacturing in that price? I dont think so. Broadcom is a fabless company. They do not own their own manufacturing either. I really doubt Vu+ has their own. To put things into perspective when they buy these chips and actually the entire boards as reference design from BCM they are also receiving the SDK (Broadcom software) which is used in combination with their software dvb-api implementation to create the drivers. So you can put two and two together, in some of the latest drivers they do not even bother to rename the old soc name from the sources , because it is all working using the same dvb-api drivers which they started using 5 years ago.

So for them priority is shipping as many boxes as possible to their customers not to add new features. They say they do add new features by releasing new boxes but the chips are not even used at their true potential. Or if it is kludged together don't expect to be working 100% bug free to the entire life of the product. And five years from now you will probably end-up with buying a new box which is replacing an old one which you never used it as you should have the first place. And most probably asking OpenPli for support. Marketing bullshit needs to stop. Stop luring customers.

 

When it's that easy to build a STB, that is get the chip from someone, and other things from someone else, why don't you start your own business?

OK, I don't like myself the marketing BS, but your demagogy in going around the bushes and blaming VU+ for their actions IMHO seems like more BS.

And forget the software layers, or technical issues, it's a simple issue between OpenPLi team and VU+, and I won't be the first to openly name it :-)

[malakudi]

@mamamia: Adding a good looking skin doesn't bring any innovation. And if you support 100+ boxes (like OpenATV does) you should know that not all boxes have the power to use a skin like Metrix. So, the decision to enforce a really heavy skin to boxes with limited processing power is wrong. A leightweight skin should be the default, or use different defaults based on what box the image is running.

Adding any kind of options to a menu system, without trying to build a logical path on the settings is also non-innovative. Offering thousands options is easy. Making these options logically combined to menus is difficult. OpenATV offers a menu hell, you can't find anything logically. See where the option for EPG language is stored: Menu -> Setup -> Audio -> Auto Language selection -> EPG. What the fuck this option is doing there? Well, it is there because they copied the auto language selection code as it is and they thought it is a nice place under Audio!!! This is sexy? This is incompetence. This is lack of understanding how a menu system should be build.

Edited by malakudi, 2 December 2015 - 12:19.

[albsky]

@mamamia: Adding a good looking skin doesn't bring any innovation. And if you support 100+ boxes (like OpenATV does) you should know that not all boxes have the power to use a skin like Metrix. So, the decision to enforce a really heavy skin to boxes with limited processing power is wrong. A leightweight skin should be the default, or use different defaults based on what box the image is running.

Adding any kind of options to a menu system, without trying to build a logical path on the settings is also non-innovative. Offering thousands options is easy. Making these options logically combined to menus is difficult. OpenATV offers a menu hell, you can't find anything logically. See where the option for EPG language is stored: Menu -> Setup -> Audio -> Auto Language selection -> EPG. What the fuck this option is doing there? Well, it is there because they copied the auto language selection code as it is and they thought it is a nice place under Audio!!! This is sexy? This is incompetence. This is lack of understanding how a menu system should be build.

OK. I'm sold. I won't use OpenATV anymore. That is a hideous place to hide EPG. Really? Professionalism has gone that far?

Bring me that software that is not beautiful, sexy, but functional and professional.

Oops it doesn't exist.

[pop_eye]

When it's that easy to build a STB, that is get the chip from someone, and other things from someone else, why don't you start your own business?

 

OK, I don't like myself the marketing BS, but your demagogy in going around the bushes and blaming VU+ for their actions IMHO seems like more BS.

And forget the software layers, or technical issues, it's a simple issue between OpenPLi team and VU+, and I won't be the first to openly name it :-)

You dont need to approve my opinion. For sure I am blaming them because their anti clone-protection stunt have disabled

one of the first generation vu-duo I own, and also because of the bad design employed in that box I had to replace underrated capacitors

just to be able to start the box. So far so good you will say, this is what all users needed to go through - on the software front the only improvement I found

was 1080p frame-buffer enabled for skins. No word about MoCA technology support. They should have thought about it. But they don't care.

[malakudi]

 

@mamamia: Adding a good looking skin doesn't bring any innovation. And if you support 100+ boxes (like OpenATV does) you should know that not all boxes have the power to use a skin like Metrix. So, the decision to enforce a really heavy skin to boxes with limited processing power is wrong. A leightweight skin should be the default, or use different defaults based on what box the image is running.

Adding any kind of options to a menu system, without trying to build a logical path on the settings is also non-innovative. Offering thousands options is easy. Making these options logically combined to menus is difficult. OpenATV offers a menu hell, you can't find anything logically. See where the option for EPG language is stored: Menu -> Setup -> Audio -> Auto Language selection -> EPG. What the fuck this option is doing there? Well, it is there because they copied the auto language selection code as it is and they thought it is a nice place under Audio!!! This is sexy? This is incompetence. This is lack of understanding how a menu system should be build.

OK. I'm sold. I won't use OpenATV anymore. That is a hideous place to hide EPG. Really? Professionalism has gone that far?

Bring me that software that is not beautiful, sexy, but functional and professional.

Oops it doesn't exist.

 

 

OpenPLi tries to be professional. I am not saying everything is done right, but at least the OpenPLi team tries to keep some standards. Whenever some of the devs requests to add another menu option (we already have too many options) there is a discussion about why it is needed, where it should be placed, what it will be the default value etc. OpenPLi does not just add another option wherever there is a free menu space. Got it?

 

PS: and nobody told you, or anyone else, to not use OpenATV. You can use whatever you like. But don't come here telling us how "sexy" your choice is, unless you are prepared to read arguments that are against your point of view.

Edited by malakudi, 2 December 2015 - 14:37.

[Rob van der Does]

on the software front the only improvement I found was 1080p frame-buffer enabled for skins.

The 1080-framebuffer is enabled in the drivers, not in the firmware. So you can use 1080-skins in PLi as well (and it is even the default skin atm).

[Erik Slagter]

Of course thats very subjective but I think the problem is that because the e2 construction site is immense and the historical focus of each team and how they got together is very different skin, bootlogos and design in general is not as important as it in my opionion should be. I think even though their image might not be as stable as Openpli, Openatv team currently improves e2 in this important regard. Maybe because their team is younger? Maybe because their team grew and got to know each other differently. Who knows. I like to look at whats positive and of course here e2 base technology and engine is developed. Cool! Here the guys work the engine. OpenAtv polish and make many cars look good. I spent a long time in the vti community and think it would help if the default skin, bootlogo design would be more democratic. Why not integrate and use the skin that most of the users currently like? Because the guys that design the old default skins and bootlogos has been a team member for ages and change is difficult.

If you think our skin is boring, why don't you contribute one yourself? It's not exactly rocket science.

[Erik Slagter]

the name VU+ exists since 2010 or so but they are very experienced as they build STBs before. If I should guess I would say 12-14 years experience in STBs.

I am aware that Ceru is a daughter of Marusys.

 

The point is that they've had over five years to come up with decent drivers and they simply don't.

[Erik Slagter]

Maybe no politeness is being exchanged because communication has stopped. No wonder reading some of the last posts.

You have no clue of what happens behind the scenes.

[Erik Slagter]

OK. I'm sold. I won't use OpenATV anymore. That is a hideous place to hide EPG. Really? Professionalism has gone that far?
Bring me that software that is not beautiful, sexy, but functional and professional.
Oops it doesn't exist.

Actually there is no obligation to use OpenPLi, you do know that?

[pop_eye]

 

on the software front the only improvement I found was 1080p frame-buffer enabled for skins.

The 1080-framebuffer is enabled in the drivers, not in the firmware. So you can use 1080-skins in PLi as well (and it is even the default skin atm).

 

I know it is in the drivers and also CFE needs different memory mapping.

But does not matter. Who cares about the skin. I only pointed out what they accomplished in 5 years

Is so nice when someone can even build their own u-boot loader. You can customize booting (flash, USB hard drive etc.)

So much to learn and play, and so many options are available.

Edited by pop_eye, 2 December 2015 - 16:17.

[albsky]

 

OK. I'm sold. I won't use OpenATV anymore. That is a hideous place to hide EPG. Really? Professionalism has gone that far?
Bring me that software that is not beautiful, sexy, but functional and professional.
Oops it doesn't exist.

Actually there is no obligation to use OpenPLi, you do know that?

 

Thank God!

Otherwise, my E2 experience would have been based on your humor ;-)

[pop_eye]

 

 

OK. I'm sold. I won't use OpenATV anymore. That is a hideous place to hide EPG. Really? Professionalism has gone that far?
Bring me that software that is not beautiful, sexy, but functional and professional.
Oops it doesn't exist.

Actually there is no obligation to use OpenPLi, you do know that?

 

Thank God!

Otherwise, my E2 experience would have been based on your humor ;-)

 

You can always build your own , you know that ? Please try.

Otherwise no need to invest in this freak box.

[Erik Slagter]

Otherwise, my E2 experience would have been based on your humor ;-)

There was no humour involved here. Maybe it's time you'd realise that it's no the best way to motivate people who are doing this for FREE in their SPARE time by demanding all kinds of things. That also counts for mamamia. Suggestions: OK. Contributions: even better. Demanding: NOT OK.

[mamamia]

Never demanded anything. Just wrote down my opinion.

Edited by mamamia, 2 December 2015 - 19:41.

[bsod]

Well I'll add my AU 2c worth in here. Having used other E2 distro's on my DUO2, (Open ATV, VIX, OpenVix, Blackhole and the standard image from VU+) I can say from my experience OpenPLi is by far the most stable and easy to use. I was a mainly using OpenATV, but since their 5.0/5.1 releases I noticed my DUO2 crashing more often, even when just selecting a recording to play, and most recently having the box crash when entering deep standby, In the end it was just too flaky, for me at least. I also have to agree with some comments made regarding the menu structure, it was just getting too convoluted.  OpenPli for me is a breath of fresh air and since installing it I have not had one crash. yes it does some things differently, but I am overcoming those, old dogs can learn new tricks . I also find the HD OpenPli skin to be well designed, nice, clean, not cluttered up.  So for me OpenPli is proving much better overall.

 

I even suspect that a local distributor of a E2 based PVR for the Oz market has based their E2 code off OpenPli, they are so much alike, just not sure if they are feeding back any fixes they make to the E2 community. One would hope so.

 

Anyway, a big thankyou from me to all the OpenPli devs who devote their spare time supporting it. I imagine it can be at times a thankless job.

 

Craig

[Erik Slagter]

BTW concerning "crashing": a real crash, where the receiver is completely frozen, no pings etc. or spontanuous reboots can only be caused by the Linux kernel itself (unlikely), a manufacturer's driver (more likely) or a hardware fault (less likely). So I would not expect the amount of real crashes to differ between different images.

 

"Crashes" where a GSOD is produced or enigma is aborted/restarted otherwise ís image-business though, often caused by third party plugins and skins, though.

[bsod]

Yes, I should have been more specific, I did mean E2 crashes, however the Deep Standby issue did not cause a GSOD, it just seemed to hang the unit, the only way to recover was to pull the power to the unit. The OpenATV crew blamed it on drivers for the DVB-T tuner(s) I had. I then replaced the single tuner cards with dual tuner DBV-T cards and that fixed the issue and all was well for a month or so until another update caused the same issue again and once again the finger was pointed at more updated drivers. The downside was there was no indication on when it would be fixed. No such issues with OpenPli I am happy to say.

 

Craig

[Erik Slagter]

ATV was right. Crashes like that are almost always caused by drivers.

[Pr2]

Hi,

 

I have tried different images, just for the fun, and always come back to OpenPLi. I'd like the default skin of OpenPLi because it is the one that gives the more informations, all other images that I test always miss some informations that I'd like to have in a skin (like the CAID and PROVID (some only display the CAID), the satellite of the channel in the all channels list (this is important to easily create the favorite without having first to zap to see on which sat or dvb-t or c we receive this channel,...)). And the mediaplayer is one of the best and user friendly. In term of ergonomics, OpenPLi is also one of the best one.

 

Even if it can be improved exemple:

- in OpenPLi you have a menu to setup the supported EPG (EIT, MHW,....) but to turn off the EIT now/next you need to go into another place (user interface).

Would be better that the EIT now/next display option is also set into the EPG menu. Will be more logical to have it there since it is indeed EPG related (EIT) and not user interface.

 

Moreover OpenPLi is fast to start and to react. I prefer the option to decide to install plugins than to have to remove imposed plugins that I don't care (CrossEPG, EMC xxxx,....).

 

I have the feeling that newbies like other images because they don't understand what's happens in the "E2 world" so when they install images with many plugins they have the feeling that everything is there and that some stuff are missing in OpenPLi (while they just need to install them from the feed).  

Later on when there learning curve of the "E2 world" increased they came back to OpenPLi and install plugins that they really use and are happy to have an image that just fit there need.

 

The hardest part in the "E2 World" is to know all the possible plugins, what they do (name and description are rarely explicit) and which one to install to cover some precise needs.

 

Pr2