31 replies to this topic

[Alex_NL]

I see that stations with the same name but who need a different picon have one symlink but in the logo folder two picons.
One with the exact name and one with the extended with '-gujoduswen', '-vephauucha', '-lichoridas', '-stawahicle', '-phibruspel', '-wapadedrud' etc.

This name is related to a satellite position or provider I guess?

 

The result is the right picon at the right station?

 

F.e. Sky 3D is on 19.2E and 13E.

There is only one symlink named 'sky3d.png' which links to logo/sky3d.png

On 13E the picon 'sky3d.png' is shown, on 19.2E the picon 'sky3d-wispelutri.png' is shown.

And there is not a symlink named '1_0_19_75_A_85_C00000_0_0_0.png' what I had expected.

 

How are those 'extentions' defined?

 

And how does this work?

 

Because when I tried it myself, f.e. with 3+ which is on 19.2E (so I thought I'd add '-gujoduswen' to '3plus.png'), but the same name is also used on 16E and 4.8E or with Tele 5, which is on 19.2E and 13E bit are different stations with different logo's.

[Abu Baniaz]

On Ocram's picons the "-gujoduswen" etc was introduced to make the names unique/different and to avoid accidental matches.

SNPicons and conventional Service Reference Picons can exist on the same system. The SRP's have higher priority.
Ocram's build process for the SNPs allows for SRPs to be included/built. It just means that the reference has to be added to his database.

The idea is that the most common/repeated one is used as an SNP. The other ones are created as SRPs. An example is the ITV on 28.2 is used as SNP, the iTV on 13E is used as SRP

Questions for you:
1. Does Ocram's build pack contain the logo you want? If so, what is the name?
2. What is the service reference of this channels?

You can check here

https://github.com/picons/picons-source/tree/master/build-source

[Alex_NL]

1. Yes and if not, I create my own.

 

One example I already gave is Tele 5, this is a German station on 19.2E with picon 'tele5.png' and on 13E it's an Polish station with picon 'tele5-lichoridas.png'.

 tele5.png   2.67KB   2 downloads  tele5-lichoridas.png   3.86KB   2 downloads

 

Another example is more challeging because on the same satellite:

HipHop TV is a Italian but also a Polish station, with the same name but with different logo's:

 hiphoptv.png   4.39KB   3 downloads  hiphoptvpoland.png   22.42KB   3 downloads

 

When I stumbled on a simular issue like f.e. RTL2: On 19.2E a German TV-station, but also on 19.2E (and 5W) a French radio-station and furthermore on 16E a Croatian TV-station and on 0.8W a Hungarian TV-station. All with the same name (RTL 2 of RTL2) and different logo's.

 rtl2.png   2.31KB   2 downloads  rtl2france.png   21.38KB   2 downloads  rtl2hrvatska.png   6.78KB   2 downloads  rtliihungary.png   1.67KB   4 downloads

So the German one on 19.2E (which allready exists in the Ocram pack) I leave unchanged and I used the names 'rtl2france.png', 'rtl2hrvatska.png' and 'rtliihungary.png'.

 

After that I made these symlinks:

1_0_2_23E2_44A_1_C00000_0_0_0.png >> rtl2france.png

1_0_2_4B0_1_20FA_DDE0000_0_0_0.png >> rtl2france.png

1_0_1_67C_9EFC_16E_A00000_0_0_0.png >> rtl2hrvatska.png

1_0_1_79EC_2C8_600_E080000_0_0_0.png >> rtliihungary.png

And all stations show the correct picon.

 

 

2. So for the example of Tele 5 the service references are:

19.2E (German) = 1_0_1_33_21_85_C00000_0_0_0

13.0E (Polish)    = 1_0_1_423B_3DB8_13E_820000_0_0_0

 

And I guess you're saying Ocram is doing the same as me, if a channelname is somewhere the same they use for one the snp and for others the srp, only they use a rather strange name for the actual picons instead of a logical name.

 

I thought there was some kind of mechanism behind it that recognized which picon to use on which satellite/provider.

F.e. sky3d has the same name on the German station as the Italian ones.

The picons are 'sky3d-wispelutri.png' for the German and 'sky3d.png' for the Italian stations.

 sky3d-wispelutri.png   3.64KB   2 downloads  sky3d.png   5.27KB   2 downloads

So there must be two symlinks, one with the name sky3d.png whick links to sky3d.png and the other should be 1_0_19_75_A_85_C00000_0_0_0.png linking to 'sky3d-wispelutri.png'.
Well here comes the strange part: That symlink '1_0_19_75_A_85_C00000_0_0_0.png' does not exist but still the German station is showing the picon 'sky3d-wispelutri.png' !

 

How??? 

 

P.S. off course I looked at the Github but I never understand what is on the Github (yet). It's my lack of knowledge, I know, but I find it very difficult to understand and (mostly) I cannot find a good explanation or some description how things work. Not even in f.e. the README.md

[WanWizard]

On Github:
- the SRP index contains: "75_A_85_C00000=sky3d-wispelutri", "75_B_85_FFFF0000=sky3d-wispelutri"
- the SNP index contains: "75_A_85_C00000=sky3d-wispelutri", "75_B_85_FFFF0000=sky3d-wispelutri"

 

So it looks like in both cases it creates a service reference link?

[Abu Baniaz]

I think the fact there links involved is causing confusion issues.

Let us leave Ocram's picons to one side for a moment. If you just look at it this way: Picons are selected in following order
1. service reference (SRP)
2. SNP name. (RTL 2 and RTL2 are both treated as rtl2.png)

Where there are two channels with same name, one should use SNP other should use SRP. The example you gave is a good and complicated one. Picon code is able to deal with this, you have already pointed out solution. Let's leave to one side for now.

Let us look at ITV on 28.2E and iTV on 13E. There are over 16 ITV channels on 28.2E (also two more) and 1 on 13E. It is ineffcient to have 17 SRPs. We can have one SNP (28.2E) and one SRP (13E) to deal with the situation. This means we just have to worry about maintaining the 13E one
We can also create symlink itvborder.png >> itv.png and itvwales.png >> itv.png This reduces work and size of picons. No point having actual itvwales.png and itvborder.png if they are the same as itv.png.

Returning to your example of rtl2, we have to have more more SRPs. There is no way to avoid this if we want correct picons shown. Nothing different to the way it was done before. It does not matter Whether you have actual logo in the picon folder, or different/sub folder and use links. The SNP code is robust/clever enough to deal with this situation.

Returning back to Ocram's picons....
Yes, in the snp-index, you can have both srp and snp links. As explained above, this is needed to deal several channels having same snp name.
Historically (prior to SNP), he has always had the links at the top take precedence when building the links. This avoids having to clean up the expired entries at the bottom. Not many people bothered to submit requests to remove the incorrect entries.
For snp-index, I would prefer to list the index alphabetically using the logo names, not the snp name or teh current newest at the top. It makes life easier when trying to find/resolve conflicts.

Previously, he used to use logical names for the logo, like "sky sports5 uk". There was a false match some time ago and had to devise a way to randomise the name. This is the reason he now uses a strange name for the actual logo/picon.

I hope that makes sense.

[Alex_NL]

On Github:
- the SRP index contains: "75_A_85_C00000=sky3d-wispelutri", "75_B_85_FFFF0000=sky3d-wispelutri"
- the SNP index contains: "75_A_85_C00000=sky3d-wispelutri", "75_B_85_FFFF0000=sky3d-wispelutri"

 

So it looks like in both cases it creates a service reference link?

 

I see now I have symlinks 1_0_1_75_A_85_C00000_0_0_0.png and 1_0_1_75_B_85_FFFF0000_0_0_0.png so now it makes sence to me, the first part is omitted.

 

I think the fact there links involved is causing confusion issues.
...
I hope that makes sense.

 

Yes, it all makes sense to me now. So no new mechanism, just another way to name the picons.
Since Ocram has no (or just a little) picons on other satellites/cable/terrestrial than 28.2/23.5/19.2/13E I just keep on making my own picons which are missing.

Edited by Alex_NL, 30 September 2016 - 17:28.

[Rob van der Does]

Since Ocram has no (or just a little) picons on other satellites/cable/terrestrial than 28.2/23.5/19.2/13E I just keep on making my own picons which are missing.

Could you upload them to the Ocram-repos please?

[Alex_NL]

 

Since Ocram has no (or just a little) picons on other satellites/cable/terrestrial than 28.2/23.5/19.2/13E I just keep on making my own picons which are missing.

Could you upload them to the Ocram-repos please?

 

 

I have no trouble sharing my picons but:

 

First I don't know how to upload them to Ocram-repos.

Second I had the impression no-one is interested since no-one responded to my additional picon-threads here.

And somewhere else I did had a response but it was a comment on the supposed bad quality of my picons because I am not a well-known piconmaker.

So, yes I am willing to share but only if my picons have the right quality, maybe someone can tell me how?
And which picons are wanted? For cable? Terrestrial? Exotic satellites?

[Abu Baniaz]

If more people can contribute to the project, it will benefit everyone.

He has some standards which need to be met, I've rarely met them when it comes to graphics. So I just post links to the graphics and edit the snp index. Must thank him, charlesduco (when a non-compliant pull is rejected, he goes out of his way to fix up and add) and this new chap on the scene, legobatman.

SNP is held back by the fact that some skins use their own rendering engines and have not adapted. Some people use CoolTV guide which is closed source. (Condolences to Coolman's family). There is a modified version which supports SNP.

[Alex_NL]

If more people can contribute to the project, it will benefit everyone.

He has some standards which need to be met, I've rarely met them when it comes to graphics. So I just post links to the graphics and edit the snp index. Must thank him, charlesduco (when a non-compliant pull is rejected, he goes out of his way to fix up and add) and this new chap on the scene, legobatman.

SNP is held back by the fact that some skins use their own rendering engines and have not adapted. Some people use CoolTV guide which is closed source. (Condolences to Coolman's family). There is a modified version which supports SNP.

I think I just understand 10% of this...

[Abu Baniaz]

And which picons are wanted? For cable? Terrestrial? Exotic satellites?

Any that are missing. Attach the logos here and we can raise an issue and see if they can be added.

[Alex_NL]

 

And which picons are wanted? For cable? Terrestrial? Exotic satellites?

Any that are missing. Attach the logos here and we can raise an issue and see if they can be added.

 

Maybe have a first look here, in the meantime there are changes and I have much more picons and changed to a better picture-editor so quality could be better now.
http://forums.openpl...ing-voor-ziggo/
http://forums.openpl...voor-digitenne/

 

But,like I said, since no-one responded I decided to not bother to upload more...

Edited by Alex_NL, 30 September 2016 - 17:52.

[Alex_NL]

In this thread in message #3 there are a few picons I also created, Hip Hop TV (Poland), RTL 2 (Hrvatska), RTL 2 (France) and RTL II (Hungary).

 

Here are some more picons for local stations on Ziggo cable Zuid Holland.

As you can see I make snp.220x132.transparent-white-nopadding picons.

Attached Files

•  radiohoekschewaard.png   10.03KB   3 downloads
•  radiobrasa.png   18.56KB   3 downloads
•  tvhoekschewaard.png   17.09KB   3 downloads
•  rtvslogo.png   45.06KB   3 downloads
•  rtvkrimpenerwaard.png   9.06KB   3 downloads
•  rtvvlaardingen.png   13.83KB   3 downloads

[Abu Baniaz]

I'll add the links to existing logos to my tree later and submit the pull request. Some of the radio channels were added already. Won't do the bits were you have linked many radio stations to stingray music.

Can you upload a lamedb file please.

Can you upload the actual logos (not picons) in a zip file, svg preferred. The build process used by Ocram will do the rest.
We will need the references for the channels that use them too.

[Alex_NL]

I'll add the links to existing logos to my tree later and submit the pull request. Some of the radio channels were added already. Won't do the bits were you have linked many radio stations to stingray music.

Well and here you go, why not? I want picons on all of them, why nobody else?

 

Can you upload a lamedb file please.

No problem.
 

Can you upload the actual logos (not picons) in a zip file, svg preferred. The build process used by Ocram will do the rest.
We will need the references for the channels that use them too.

What's svg?
And how does this "build process" takes care for a usable picon, because some of them are very small, and sometimes with transparent background too dark.

I have not stored the actual logos. I could do that in the future.

 

As I am into svn logo's I don't have all their reference ID's, only when there are stations with the same name and different logos.
Making the picons takes already a lot of time.
Maybe when I understand how to contribute on the Github/Oscram myself, but it seems that nobody wants to tell me how that is done.

[Alex_NL]

Sorry, forgot the lamedb in the previous post.

If this "build process" is going to spare me time it could be a good idea and off course others will benefit from it.

Right now it look like more time consuming to me than it already is.

 

Furthermore, how will I get the picons myself if I have to upload the original logo?
I have installed 'snp-full.220x132-190x102.light.on.transparant' from the feed, so that when I update my receiver the picons will be updated as well. (I thought so).

Could be my mistake but I thought that "full" means 28.2/23.5/19.2/13E and nothing else.

So no other satellites (besides some stations who happen to have the same name), no cable, no terrestrial, no streams...

To get those picons I have to build from the source myself I beleive and that's not easy for me.
 

Am I right?

Attached Files

•  lamedb.zip   175.31KB   1 downloads

Edited by Alex_NL, 30 September 2016 - 19:43.

[Abu Baniaz]

Thanks for the lamedb, I'll compare later. You have asked several questions/made remarks. If the responses do not make sense, please say so.

 

S= Question or statement by you

R= Response

S: I want picons on all of them, why nobody else?
R: Everybody else does. Maybe people unsure.

 

S: What's svg?

R: Type of graphic. These are best quality

 

S: I have not stored the actual logos. I could do that in the future.

R: Thanks. If you are making the logos yourself, best to upload them somewhere so others can make use of them too.

 

S: I have installed 'snp-full.220x132-190x102.light.on.transparant' from the feed, so that when I update my receiver the picons will be updated as well. (I thought so).

R: You need to install his "feeds". This allows for the receiver to check if newer version exists.

 

S: I thought that "full" means 28.2/23.5/19.2/13E and nothing else.

R. Full - build all logos for which there are references on his database. The other means build against a lamedb file and will only contain picons for the services in the lamedb file. There are references for many services. The beauty of SNP, is that they are not tied to particular satellites.

If people are making with the intention of sharing, best to use the "full" build method.

 

However, I think it is better to find/create logos and contribute to Ocram's project and let his process do the rest. You can build if you want to.

 

S: Maybe when I understand how to contribute on the Github/Oscram myself, but it seems that nobody wants to tell me how that is done.

R: Let us split logos and picons in our mind. Ocram has logs on his database. He also has references (SRP or SNP). These are used to build picons and also links.

 

Scenario 1: If he has logos on his database but there is no  picon.

We need to do is provide him with the references. Like people do with Doglover and EPG.

 

See this commit for the Dutch channels you mentioned earlier. https://github.com/A...ecd048c90d9c78f

When these are merged into his repository, the next build process will include them.

 

Scenario 2: If he has no/wrong logo.

We provide him with one as well as references. It is very frustrating when he rejects them. But bear in mind that using poor quality logos means picons look poor.

 

Scenario 3: Wrong picon being used:

As people do with Doglover for EPG, we need to provide correct references.

 

For example, if iTV on 13E changed reference and as a result was now showing ITV from 28.2, we can post the new link for him.

Or, if someone was using SNP, but the wrong rtl2 was being shown, we also provide the SRP reference.

 

See this issue as an example

https://github.com/p...urce/issues/117

 

Hope this answers most of your queries.

[Alex_NL]

S= Question or statement by you
R= Response
A= Answer of me
Q= New Question

S: I want picons on all of them, why nobody else?
R: Everybody else does. Maybe people unsure.
Q: So why not link all Stingray radio stations to stingray music picon?
 
S: What's svg?
R: Type of graphic. These are best quality
A: I use Paint.net, that program cannot export in svg, only pdn (own paint.net format), BMP GIF JPEG TIFF TGA and DDS (DirectDraw Surface)
Q: Which program do I need? Although I'd rather not switch....
 
S: I have not stored the actual logos. I could do that in the future.
R: Thanks. If you are making the logos yourself, best to upload them somewhere so others can make use of them too.
Q: Where?
 
S: I have installed 'snp-full.220x132-190x102.light.on.transparant' from the feed, so that when I update my receiver the picons will be updated as well. (I thought so).
R: You need to install his "feeds". This allows for the receiver to check if newer version exists.
Q: How? What I now use is supplied by OpenPLi. I thought they use the Ocram picons too?
 
S: I thought that "full" means 28.2/23.5/19.2/13E and nothing else.
R. Full - build all logos for which there are references on his database. The other means build against a lamedb file and will only contain picons for the services in the lamedb file. There are references for many services. The beauty of SNP, is that they are not tied to particular satellites.

If people are making with the intention of sharing, best to use the "full" build method.

A: I did not mean the build, but the picons from the (OpenPli) feed. First I need to learn how to build...?

 
However, I think it is better to find/create logos and contribute to Ocram's project and let his process do the rest. You can build if you want to.
 
S: Maybe when I understand how to contribute on the Github/Oscram myself, but it seems that nobody wants to tell me how that is done.
R: Let us split logos and picons in our mind. Ocram has logs on his database. He also has references (SRP or SNP). These are used to build picons and also links.
 
Scenario 1: If he has logos on his database but there is no  picon.
We need to do is provide him with the references. Like people do with Doglover and EPG.
 
See this commit for the Dutch channels you mentioned earlier. https://github.com/A...ecd048c90d9c78f
When these are merged into his repository, the next build process will include them.

A: Quick remark: You have linked 4B1C_80F_600_FFFF0000 to hbo2-deswephosp which is I think the hbo2 picon allready in use for satellite. This is not the same as in use for HBO2 in the Netherlands, that's why I added this line a different picon.
Maybe if I understand how to commit I'll work this out.
 
Scenario 2: If he has no/wrong logo.
We provide him with one as well as references. It is very frustrating when he rejects them. But bear in mind that using poor quality logos means picons look poor.
 
Scenario 3: Wrong picon being used:
As people do with Doglover for EPG, we need to provide correct references.
 
For example, if iTV on 13E changed reference and as a result was now showing ITV from 28.2, we can post the new link for him.
Or, if someone was using SNP, but the wrong rtl2 was being shown, we also provide the SRP reference.
 
See this issue as an example
https://github.com/p...urce/issues/117
 
Hope this answers most of your queries.

 

A: Have to study this, but it's promising. For now already thanks for the explanation, maybe later more questions/remarks.

[Abu Baniaz]

Q: So why not link all Stingray radio stations to stingray music picon?

A. You had all missing radio picons pointing to stingraymusic. This won't be accepted.

 

Q. You have linked 4B1C_80F_600_FFFF0000 to hbo2-deswephosp which is I think the hbo2 picon allready in use for satellite

A. There were two hbo2-xxx. They did not match names you used. I picked the wrong one. That entry needs correcting to  4B1C_80F_600_FFF

F0000=hbo2 (assuming hbo2 is correct). If there is no correct HBo2 picon, then it needs to be created and added

 

Q: How? What I now use is supplied by OpenPLi. I thought they use the Ocram picons too?

They are. As far as I am aware, If you install from PLI server, receiver will check PLI server for updates. If you install from Ocram's server, receiver will check Ocram's server for updates.

 

Q: Where to upload graphics?

A. Anywhere it suits you. People should be able to download them

 

You can install his server feeds enigma2-plugin-feeds-picons.xyz_2015-08-31--19-55-30_all.ipk  Download from picons.xyz or if on PLI plugin server

 

 

Q: Which program do I need? Although I'd rather not switch....

A. carry on using it. If graphics are fine, they will be added. If they are not, hopefully not telll you off but advise you on what to do better.

 

 

 

 

Q: I did not mean the build, but the picons from the (OpenPli) feed. First I need to learn how to build...?

A. Maybe PLI should consider naming different. Or not include the picons on their feeds. Means everyone will have to use Ocram's server then.

You do not need to build yourself.

[WanWizard]

Perhaps a little bit more use of the "quote" button might help to separate questions from answers?