250 replies to this topic

[Huevos]

My goal, and the entire reason for this discussion, is stil the same. I want to be able to connect a non-SKY box (i.e. a box running OpenPLi) to such a system, and be able to watch TV. At least all Freesat channels. Irrespective of the type of system my flat was configured for.

 

Yes and that would be the goal of any sensible designer of a new system... except Sky.

 

In the UK changing to the Sky Q LNB means no other equipment can be used. Just another way to make it more difficult for subscribers to drop the service and just plug in a generic satellite receiver.

[littlesat]

This is about unicable, jess and a switch that sky also used for sky-q that can also do jess/unicable on an input beside a custom sky mode... And not about the wideband lnbs...

[WanWizard]

In the UK changing to the Sky Q LNB means no other equipment can be used. Just another way to make it more difficult for subscribers to drop the service and just plug in a generic satellite receiver.

 

That is absolutely true. And has always been a nightmare, by not supporting DiseqC, you always had to have a second dish if you wanted to receive anything else. And because there is no CI module (that you can buy as a consumer), you are forced to use two boxes as well. What a waste of money, energy (both human and electricity) and time.

[Abu Baniaz]

Has anybody tested a JESS LNB (not a switch) using a standard tuner (not an FBC tuner)? Reason for asking is that I am getting a momentary tune failed error when coming out of standby. I also get same issue if coming from a terrestrial tuner to a satellite tuner.

 

My GI LX3 and Miraclebox Micro Premium are giving this issue. But the Solo 4K does not.

[Huevos]

Let me explain, hopefully without making this complicated.

 

This is not a fault with the software or the LNB.

 

The Universal LNB is an analogue device. It starts sending signals down the cable as soon as it is powered.

 

The Unicable LNB is a digital device. From a cold start it needs to boot before it can interpret any instructions sent to it by the STB. It has to do this every time power is removed. i.e. every time the tuner stops sending power up the co-ax.

 

The Unicable LNB is a communal device. So normally it would have an injection power supply to keep it permanently awake. Even if it didn't have a dedicated power source it would always have some user or other connected, so it would always be powered. That means that any new user coming out of standby would be able to use it instantly.

 

In your case you are the only user and you do not have a dedicated power source, so coming out of standby, or coming from a terrestrial channel the LNB has to cold boot. The cold boot is the reason for the brief tune failed message.

 

If you had other active devices using the same LNB when you brought your STB out of standby the tune failed message would not display, and the service would be viewable immediately.

 

The reason this doesn't happen with the Solo4K is because "ForceLNBPower" means the LNB is permanently powered from the STB even when the tuner is not in use.

[Huevos]

Turns out this cold start power up is quite a problem.

 

Is there some way the user can add some optional extra time to cope with this situation?

 

Problem is this. When zapping from terrestrial to satellite you get a "tune failed" message, because the LNB was not already powered and needs to boot.

[eDVBChannel] OURSTATE: tuner 1 failed, retune

Ok, that's not so bad because it recovers after several seconds.

 

But if the same thing happens from in another area, (e.g. Satfinder, TuneTest.py, CrossEPG downloader, AutoBouquetsMaker) the failure is fatal.

[eDVBChannel] OURSTATE: tuner 1 failed, fatal

This renders these applications useless. Why do they respond differently from a normal zap and not just retune? What can be done to get these working properly when using Unicable from cold state?

 

Failing here:

https://github.com/O...b/dvb.cpp#L1554

Edited by Huevos, 4 January 2017 - 18:56.

[littlesat]

The differences is that we have a check on... it only retunes on actual managed channels... (see the comment).... we should also retune when this is not the case and not make it fatal (but it seems we have no parameters somehow then).... 

[Huevos]

Why would the parameters be missing. Is it because Satfinder is tuning a transponder rather than a service?

[Erik Slagter]

Some receiver have an option to not power-down a tuner when it's not in use (alike the solo4k).

 

Another "solution" would be to use a power injector.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's an issue in the SCR code.

[Huevos]

Erik, I'm not looking for a fault with the PLi code. I'm looking for a way that some optional time could be added to give the LNB a chance to power up before sending the tuning word.

 

Is a power injector really necessary if a normal zap manages to recover?

[littlesat]

Then add a configurable timer..... When this timer is not completed try to retune....

 

But still better to have some kind of trigger.... But you meant the LNB needs to power UP before accepting commands.... then you cannot have any feedback from the LNB... then a timing (or better ignore error and continue to try mechanism) is the only thing we have.

 

Some receiver have an option to not power-down a tuner when it's not in use (alike the solo4k).

->

Why should it be powered ON when this is not required?

Edited by littlesat, 4 January 2017 - 20:19.

[Erik Slagter]

Then add a configurable timer..... When this timer is not completed try to retune....

That sounds like a workaround. We already have trouble enough with various configurations.
 

Some receivers have an option to not power-down a tuner when it's not in use (alike the solo4k).
Why should it be powered ON when this is not required?

Ehhhh, maybe because the JESS LNB doesn't have to boot because it was never shutdown?

[athoik]

I think Huevos mention that he is using multitype tuner (most probably a mini+ or mega).

Maybe when coming from C/T mode to S we need to do something with voltage?

diff --git a/lib/dvb/frontend.cpp b/lib/dvb/frontend.cpp
index 85193ed..e0479f7 100644
--- a/lib/dvb/frontend.cpp
+++ b/lib/dvb/frontend.cpp
@@ -2237,7 +2237,10 @@ RESULT eDVBFrontend::tune(const iDVBFrontendParameters &where)
        if (m_type == feSatellite && type != feSatellite)
                setTone(iDVBFrontend::toneOff);
        else if (type == feSatellite && m_type != feSatellite)
+       {
                setDeliverySystem("DVB-S");
+               setVoltage(iDVBFrontend::voltageOff);
+       }

        if (!m_simulate)
                m_sn->stop();

[Huevos]

@Erik, the reason Vu+ added "ForceLNBPower" and "ForceTone" was because the FBC links didn't work properly once the root tuner became inactive. i.e. a recording active on tuner C and the box put in standby and the recording would fail.

 

@Athoik, I've got a stack of E2 boxes and this fault happens on all except the Solo4K, which has the "ForceLNBPower" feature. But yes Mini+ has the problem too when coming from terrestrial. Do I still try that patch?

[athoik]

When frontend initializes, it executes setVoltage(iDVBFrontend::voltageOff).

If executing setVoltage(iDVBFrontend::voltageOff) when changing from T/C to S solves the problem on mini+ then I why not to include.

Although it is just a guess. It is possible that it won't fix something.

Edited by athoik, 4 January 2017 - 21:11.

[littlesat]

Sounds like an easy fix... It is only wierd to switch it off when we go to dvb-s....

[Huevos]

I've done some experimenting with Satelliteequipmentcontrol plugin. Changed the delay between voltage and switch command and all failed messages are gone now.

[athoik]

What values fix it?

Nice that you solve issue in the right direction

[Huevos]

https://github.com/O...anager.py#L1074

 

For my LNB 900 ms was good, But some unpowered switches need a couple of seconds delay.

[littlesat]

So in fact we have already something for it...? Sounds better to make a repeat of it.... Directly command and then repeat it after a sec...

But probably we can simply consider to increase this default level....

Edited by littlesat, 5 January 2017 - 22:55.