239 replies to this topic

[BarviX]

And where is the git repo?

/github.com/PURE2-Team

[jenseneverest]

@MCelliotG

 

Dose multistream still work with that fix applied ??

[Huevos]

They only added HD51 and H7 to the powermeasurement option via boxbranding, only changed three lines from the openATV satconfig.py. I transfered their satconfig.py to OpenATV and it works. However it's still a workaround!

I saw another change on OpenVIX that actually Huevos commited

https://github.com/O...021e88e4db9320c

 

Does it fix the issue completely?

Why are you not using the PLi CPP commits? They cure the issue for any boxes that may have it. But an endless spinner has been reported for the PLi commits when the transponder has closed.

[WTE]

They only added HD51 and H7 to the powermeasurement option via boxbranding, only changed three lines from the openATV satconfig.py. I transfered their satconfig.py to OpenATV and it works. However it's still a workaround!

 

Why would you do that?

 

Openatv latest image works since couple of days fine without any adjustment.

Edited by WTE, 28 March 2018 - 16:58.

[MCelliotG]

They only added HD51 and H7 to the powermeasurement option via boxbranding, only changed three lines from the openATV satconfig.py. I transfered their satconfig.py to OpenATV and it works. However it's still a workaround!

Why would you do that?

Openatv latest image works since couple of days fine without any adjustment.

Just for test purposes. The commit must be today's since it wasn't working yesterday. Anyway for me that was the least of the problem. No live values support and rounded db indications are worse. Octagon has these fixed!

[WTE]

Anyway for me that was the least of the problem. No live values support and rounded db indications are worse. Octagon has these fixed!

 

 

HD51 support and is one of few boxes which give you the real (live) values
Please tell me how it's possible when the steps for silabs are 0.25dB that some boxes can show changes like 0.01 The answer is very easy this are dirty hacks and manipulate values.

Edited by WTE, 28 March 2018 - 19:01.

[MCelliotG]

I would say that you were joking, but I see you did not understand what I am writing!

Live Tuner Values are the ones that are reported directly from the tuner when any service is tuned, not the ones stored in the lamedb.

The correct Silabs driver reports these with no problems. This happens on Dreamboxes, Octagon and VuZero4K.

Instead HD51 and H7 use a driver/firmware that has not these enabled and it shows only the IF frequency of the LNB, thus 9750 and 10600 in Ku band. No SR, no other values.

Here's a screenshot of what is shown

[Attachment = 93098: livetuner1.jpg]

As you can see only 10600 is reported, no SR, no FEC, no nothing. What is more interesting is that even the DVB-T2 tuner has this problem. Something tells me that it's more than the driver, something went missing completely from the manufacturer?

 

As for the db values these are wrong too. Of course Silabs has 0.25db increments, and this is what we expect to have. Instead we get a calculated down value from the tuner driver which would not be such a problem if actually would be close, but in many cases the increments are of even 2db apart. This has nothing to do with other tuners like BCM that output increments of 0.01db, don't get that confused!

Here's a femon report of what is returned, no 0.25db. You can see even a 9.50db signal, this is another bug from the tuner driver, it first reports less signal!

root@hd51:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 0
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 62.89% C/N= 16.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 84.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 62.89% C/N= 16.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 84.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 62.89% C/N= 16.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 84.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 62.89% C/N= 16.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 84.00%
       (0x00)

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.99% C/N= 17.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 89.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.99% C/N= 17.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 89.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 61.72% C/N= 15.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 80.00%
       (0x00)

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.20% C/N= 9.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 50.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.20% C/N= 15.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 78.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.20% C/N= 15.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 78.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 55.08% C/N= 13.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 70.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 56.64% C/N= 13.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 70.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 56.64% C/N= 13.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 70.00%
       (0x00)

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 59.38% C/N= 15.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 78.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 59.38% C/N= 15.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 78.00%

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 59.38% C/N= 15.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 78.00%

Now, let's compare what Octagon SF4008 outputs from their tuner driver

root@sf4008:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 1

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 11.00dB
Layer A: C/N= 68.73%

Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 11.00dB
Layer A: C/N= 68.73%

Hmmm, surprised? The increments are absolutely correct!

 

These are REAL driver problems, that any manufacturer that respects their clients should push to fix. It's unfortunate that an excellent receiver like HD51 to almost any other extend gets the last of the stick in the support for the faulty drivers they use for the Silabs tuner.

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  livetuner1.jpg   127.55KB   6 downloads
•  livetuner2.jpg   128.17KB   6 downloads

Edited by MCelliotG, 29 March 2018 - 02:11.

[WTE]

It's lot easier to use standard openpli skin and language english, so that others can understand what you mean.

 

The log of v4l tool shows the value of frontend values, this has actually nothing to do with silabs as this is the demod part. I canot repeat myself enough the HD51 sends real DVB-API5 values

That you don't like the values and prefer to get fooled with manipulate values I do not really understand.

 

Maybe their is a bug with HD51 but with info you supplied it's clear that SF4008 is wrong and I know that HD51 is following the DVB-API5 standards so it gives as good as possible the real values.

 

Second issue:

10600-9750 I assume you mean 22Khz values used by KU LNB's ?

You image supply the value 9750-10600 Why does it show this values and I am pretty sure this values comes from you image and is not related in any way with the driver or silabs.

[Erik Slagter]

Second issue:

10600-9750 I assume you mean 22Khz values used by KU LNB's ?

You image supply the value 9750-10600 Why does it show this values and I am pretty sure this values comes from you image and is not related in any way with the driver or silabs.

That doesn't make sense? TS is talking of the lower and higher oscillator frequencies, which, apparently, are reported back from the driver, instead of the real "tuned to" frequency, like any other tuner/driver combination. The oscillator frequency is not at all interesting to know because it can be derived easily and carries no information.

 

I don't see the relation to the 22 kHz tone(-burst) which is only signalling (and also only used when the connected endpoint can't understand DiSEqC, like a LNB, vs. a multiswitch).

[Huevos]

@Erik, "only used when the connected endpoint can't understand DiSEqC"

 

DiSEqC is modulated onto 22kHz tone.

[Neo64]

 

 

^{We are discussing a solution that other Teams already have implanted .As the Spanish say  MANDA WEBOS.} 

 

Edited by Neo64, 29 March 2018 - 22:12.

[MCelliotG]

No, we're not discussing the motor problem anymore, the tuner values are another issue, not having to do with the motor. No team can make their own drivers to fix these (unless they are Dreambox)

I don't know what else to say, it's like WTE is trying to convince himself that everything works correctly, but it seems like he is in complete denial. If this is the support we are getting in the future from Mutant, I can easily see people moving on to other receivers that will at least listen to what the customers have to say... I'm REALLY disappointed!

[WanWizard]

Perhaps you don't understand each other? I've been going over this disussion twice, and to be honest, I have no clue what exactly the issue is. You talk about frequencies, then switch to tuner relative reception quality?

 

So perhaps do one step back, and describe simply what you observe that in your opinion is wrong, what you think it should be, and why you think that? And start from there?

[MCelliotG]

OK, I try the most of my capacity, but let's make myself even more clear then. I report two different issues that were already reported by other people as well!

 

PROBLEM 1:

No LIVE tuner values supported.

When OpenPLI is set to read the frequency data from the tuner and not the lamedb 

Infobar frontent data source -- Tuner

instead of the tuned live frequency data we get only the oscillator frequency of the LNB. If the frequency for instance is 12034V we will only get 10600V, if it's 10775H we get 9750H!

 tunerlive1.jpg   87.55KB   2 downloads

All other receivers with Silabs tuners report the tuner values with this setting on correctly!

This also affects the DVB-T2 tuner of HD51, which means it could be more than the driver, something else has to be missing too!

 

 

PROBLEM 2:

The tuner driver DOES NOT report the db values correctly, but a calculated down value which in many cases differs up to 2 db from the real one!

Plus there is a lot of variation in the db value (signal goes up and down randomly with no reason) especially on Multistream channels.

Plus when a frequency is tuned you don't see the real db right away but a lower value. For instance it goes from 7.5db to 17.2db!

 

Instead of outputting the correct 0.25 increment values for example 10.25 - 10.50 - 10.75 - 11.00 - 11.25 etc

the generic driver that HD51 uses outputs calculated down values  10.20 - 10.50 - 10.70 - 11.20 etc. Often it skips increments as well.

 

I ran femon and fe-tool to monitor the demodulator's behaviour. Although it is DVBAPI v5.1 this DOES NOT mean the values are correct. DVBAPI reads the values from the driver. If the driver reports erroreous values, DVBAPI will too!

So this is what femon reports on HD51.

Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 56.25% C/N= 14.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 75.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 56.25% C/N= 14.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 75.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.59% C/N= 17.50dB
       Layer A: C/N= 89.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.59% C/N= 17.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 88.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 58.59% C/N= 17.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 88.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 56.64% C/N= 9.70dB
       Layer A: C/N= 50.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 56.64% C/N= 13.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 67.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 59.38% C/N= 9.00dB
       Layer A: C/N= 46.00%
Lock   (0x1f) Signal= 59.38% C/N= 13.20dB
       Layer A: C/N= 67.00%

In the marked red you can also see the issue these 9db values happen when you zap through channels with different frequencies. None of the other Silabs receivers have this problem.

 

Let's compare what SF4008 outputs with fe-tool.

root@sf4008:~# dvb-fe-tool -m -a 0 -f 1
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 10.75dB
Layer A: C/N= 62.49%
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 11.00dB
Layer A: C/N= 68.73%
Lock (0x1f) Signal= 0.00% C/N= 11.00dB
Layer A: C/N= 68.73%

As you can see we have 0.25 increments and steady values. This is the expected behaviour!

 

Now, I can't make myself any more clear. These are two basic tuner driver problems. WTE claims that this is normal behaviour and all other receivers report fake values. If this is not denial, I don't know what is!

 

[WanWizard]

How have you established what is right and wrong?

 

If there is anything true in this business, it is that dB and SNR values reported by drivers and/or tuners are virtually useless. It is the main reason we have stopped attempting to unify the results, but simply pass on whatever the driver reports. I know there are plenty of images out there that still attempt to "massage" the results, or try to convert dB's into percentages or v.v, The values are different for every box and every type of tuner in that box. I have about 12 different ones on my test stack here, and none displays the same. And none I've ever seen reports the same that professional equipment reports.

 

Also, there is an entire series of Si2166D chips, which might be different, and even more important, the Si2166D is not the tuner, but the demodulator, so it could well be that the tuner components, shielding, design of the NiM, etc, is different between two brands, which might also influence the reception.

 

What I do see is that the HD51 reports both SNR % and dB, while the SF4008 only reports dB. What I also see is that the dB values for the HD51 seem to vary quite a bit, while the SNR% is reasonably constant. You would expect that to vary in the same degree.

 

So far, I find it difficult to point the finger. Either way.

[MCelliotG]

The Silabs SDK for all Silabs demods has 0.25db increments. In HD51 we don't see that. The tuner driver does not report that, it can't be any simplier!

So, how about problem 1 is this normal behaviour too?

I remember Edision OSmini had a similar problem, that was fixed with a driver update. VuZero4K also had an identical problem. That was fixed too (same tuner). So, what makes HD51 so different?

 

Because what I get from all that is that Si2166D is a faulty tuner after all...

[WTE]

No, we're not discussing the motor problem anymore, the tuner values are another issue, not having to do with the motor. No team can make their own drivers to fix these (unless they are Dreambox)

I don't know what else to say, it's like WTE is trying to convince himself that everything works correctly, but it seems like he is in complete denial. If this is the support we are getting in the future from Mutant, I can easily see people moving on to other receivers that will at least listen to what the customers have to say... I'm REALLY disappointed!

 

This sounds like trolling so it's probably ....

Anyway I still want to know what you think is wrong.

Can you tell me who provide the LNB values like 9750/10600 please answer with: enigma2, frontend, demod.

Can you tell me how to switch between 9750/10600: 22Khz, frontend, demod

Can you explain what 950 - 2150Mhz range has to do with 9750/10600?

 

Do you use with your tests the Openpli image as I assume your in Openpli forum you use the Openpli enigma2 image.

Edited by WTE, 30 March 2018 - 00:40.

[MCelliotG]

So, I'm trolling now, OK....

I've been trying so hard with evidence to prove what's wrong and all I get is that I'm trolling...

 

No, my friend I will not answer any of these questions. Because it seems everything I say is trolling to you! And everything you say is right!

Yes, HD51 is a perfect receiver. It has no problems at all, you say it is and because you say it it's right!

Everyone else is trolling!

 

I'm sorry I even lost my time with this, it's more than apparent we will never get the support we deserve for this receiver with this kind of attitude!

I'm totally out of this conversation. I've been on satellite forums for years and have been always helpful. My only mistake is buying a receiver I mistakenly thought would be correctly supported and all I get is people mocking me for trolling!

 

Good luck to everyone who owns an HD51. Enjoy your perfect problem-free product!

Edited by MCelliotG, 30 March 2018 - 00:52.

[WanWizard]

Gents, can we get back on track here please? Name calling doesn't lead to anything, lets keep the discussion constructive.

[WTE]

No, my friend I will not answer any of these questions.

 

To bad, I still want to help and to see if I understand your problem.

What I understand from your words is that the demod or frontend informs Enigma2 what kind of LNB it's connect.

So far I know this is not possible and you set this info in enigma2. As you can have c-band, ku band, ka band unicable and so on.

I still want to provide the answers of my questions,

- Can you tell me who provide the LNB values like 9750/10600 please answer with: enigma2, frontend, demod.

Answer: Enigma2, beside the 9750/10600 which is used for ku band (universale LNB) enigma2 support more LNB Cband which is 5150 and wideband which is 10400. unicable use more values but it's difficult to explain in couple of sentences.

- Can you tell me how to switch between 9750/10600: 22Khz, frontend, demod
Answer: 22Khz, this switches the LNB from lowband to highband and back. Not all LNB's use the 22Khz as some have only 2 bands which then V/H is enough like Cband and wideband LNB's

- Can you explain what 950 - 2150Mhz range has to do with 9750/10600?

For ku band the range is 950 -2150Mhz which provide you the frequency of transponder by add up 9750/10600
Ku band lowband value is 9750 and highband 10600 and with 22Khz or non 22Khz you get so 4 different bands.

Vertical non 22khz (lowband vertical)
Vertical 22Khz (highband vertical)
Horizontal non 22khz (lowband horizontal)
Horizontal 22Khz (high band horizontal)
The satellite frequency  are between:

950 + 9750 = 10700

2150 +10600 = 12750

The switch between low and high band is @ 11700

1100 + 10600 = 11700

1950 + 9750 = 11700
So the value for  ku band LNB is 950 to 1950 MHz (lowband)  and 1100 to 2150 MHz (high band)