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Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities


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#1 kermith

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 21:47

Sorry guys I really have tried hard to read on and googled but still can’t grasp the FBC and the Unicable stuff. Please bear with me.

I’m planning on buying the Ultimo 4k and set up a satellite dish with LNB’s that will point at three different satellites. They are:

  1. 0.8W INTELSAT 10-02
  2. 4.8E SIRIUS 4
  3. 13E EUTELSAT 9A | EUTELSAT HOT BIRD 13B | EUTELSAT HOT BIRD 13C

I had the cable guy here today and the satellite dish would be fine to use, no trees or houses on the horizon so I can connect to three satellites. What bothers me a little is that he said, and I think he’s wrong, that I need three twin tuners in my box to make it work for watching a program on one satellite and record a tv-show from another satellite at the same time.

 

Ultimo 4k comes with a twin tuner. So, wouldn’t the twin tuner that comes with it be enough to have at least two of the satellites working, and if I need the third satellite I just need to add another twin tuner to the Ultimo?

 

He also says that I need to have two coax cables to the box from the satellite dish. Is that right?
I still don’t get the whole thing with the Unicable stuff. I thought I just needed one cable for the whole setup from the dish to my box.

 

All I need is to be able to receive 3 satellites. I would like to have the possibility to record a program on one satellite and watch another program on the other satellite. How many LNB’s and tuners do I need? And how many cables do I have to have from the satellite dish to the Ultimo 4k?

 

I would appreciate any advice before I do anything stupid.  :unsure:

 

/kerm



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #2 WanWizard

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 21:52

The guy clearly didn't know his stuff.

 

Even in a traditional setup, a 12-1 multiswitch would allow a single tuner to access all three LNB's, if you take a multiswitch with two outputs, you can connect two tuners, and you can watch and record at the same time. No need for 6 tuners, you would only need 6 tuners if you wanted to connect the LNB's directly to the receiver, without a switch. You would need twin LNB's for that, you would need quattro (or quad) LNB's for a multiswitch. For every tuner you want to conect up (either with or without a switch), you need a coax cable.

 

Note that this is all without Unicable of FBC tuners, sat users been implementing this for decades. You can see this as a parallel design, one tuner, one cable.

 

Unicable is a serial design. You can one tuner, one cable, but that can transport 8, 16 or 32 different transponders through the cable at the same time. And an FBC tuner can receive 8 of those simultanously. This system also needs a multiswitch, but then one that is unicable compliant.


Edited by WanWizard, 26 August 2017 - 10:11.

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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #3 kermith

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 22:07

Wow great reply @WanWizard

 

So,

 

1. I'm good with the twin tuner that comes with the Ultimo 4k?

2. And just get a multi-switch with three outputs?
3. Will the multi-switch be mounted by the satellite dish?

4. And do I need a diseq to connect to the multi-switch?

5. And with the above setup I can watch a football game on 0.8W INTELSAT 10-02 and record a hockey game on 4.8E SIRIUS 4, all at the same time?



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #4 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:42

1. I'm good with the twin tuner that comes with the Ultimo 4k?


The Ultimo 4K does not come with two tuners. You have to pick which tuner card/s to include when buying.
It has slots for two FBC cards and another one for a legacy card. By legacy card, I mean the ones used in Uno, Duo2, Solo SE etc. The legacy card comes in twin or single satellite or hybrid

Unless you are re-using an older card you have lying around, buy the FBC satellite one. (I doubt anyone sells without tuners.) The FBC "tuner card" is better than the legacy one. If you get one FBC satellite card, it will be two tuners + 6 loop throughs if you do not use a unicable LNB.

You can use an FBC tuner with conventional LNBS. You don't have to use unicable. Using Unicable adds possibilities, but it is not mandatory.

Edited by Abu Baniaz, 26 August 2017 - 05:45.


Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #5 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 06:06

From my understanding, once a tuner is locked onto a satellite, that tuner cannot select another satellite, even though they are on a diseqc switch. In my opinion it would be simpler to have two diseqc switches by the dish, and two cables to the receiver.
If you have a twin tuner card in your solo se, that can operate with the setup too.

I am not too clued up on multi-switches, but would imagine you would need two cables from the switch.

Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #6 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 07:17

 

1. I'm good with the twin tuner that comes with the Ultimo 4k?


The Ultimo 4K does not come with two tuners. You have to pick which tuner card/s to include when buying.
It has slots for two FBC cards and another one for a legacy card. By legacy card, I mean the ones used in Uno, Duo2, Solo SE etc. The legacy card comes in twin or single satellite or hybrid

Unless you are re-using an older card you have lying around, buy the FBC satellite one. (I doubt anyone sells without tuners.) The FBC "tuner card" is better than the legacy one. If you get one FBC satellite card, it will be two tuners + 6 loop throughs if you do not use a unicable LNB.

You can use an FBC tuner with conventional LNBS. You don't have to use unicable. Using Unicable adds possibilities, but it is not mandatory.

 

 

 

From my understanding, once a tuner is locked onto a satellite, that tuner cannot select another satellite, even though they are on a diseqc switch. In my opinion it would be simpler to have two diseqc switches by the dish, and two cables to the receiver.
If you have a twin tuner card in your solo se, that can operate with the setup too.

I am not too clued up on multi-switches, but would imagine you would need two cables from the switch.

 

Thanks for your answer @Abu Baniaz. So, your setup totally crashes @WanWizard setup.

 

1.       The Ultimo 4K comes with one twin tuner. At least the one I’m ordering.

2.       So according to you I NEED a second FBC tuner? And even the third (legacy) for the third satellite?

3.       So, what @WanWizard is talking about is nonsense?

4.       And why would I only need two cables from the satellite dish when I will have three twin tuners installed in the box? Wouldn’t I need three cables? One for each tuner?

5.       Also, what’s the fuzz about the Unicable thing that supposed to carry all information in one cable, to a tuner. Now it means I will have to fill all tuner slots on my box (three twin tuners, where two are twin tuners FBC and one legacy twin tuner)

6.       So, the cable guy was right then?

 

It’s really getting more twisted for me and more confusing actually. 



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #7 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 07:34

You have misunderstood what I said. One FBC tuner card will be fine for recording one satellite and watching another satellite. (Provided you have the correct equipment connected to the tuners).

 

If you are going to call what a senior member posts "non-sense", you won't get far. He posted an alternative setup.

 

Please state exactly what tuner configuration you will be getting with your receiver. Just saying twin tuner card is not clear enough. Is it a conventional tuner or an FBC tuner? You are even saying different things about your tuners.

 

FBC tuner and Unicable are two different and separate technologies. They can be used together. They don't have to be.


Edited by Abu Baniaz, 26 August 2017 - 07:36.


Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #8 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:14

@Abu Baniaz.

 

First of all, I have not called a senior member anything bad. I just set a question mark on his statement, in this case @WanWizard.
 

If for any reason someone feels offended I really didn't mean it, so a Huge Sorry!  :wub: 

 

1. Yes @WanWizard posted a different setup.

 

2. I have already stated exactly in my first post what kind of setup I have. "Ultimo 4k comes with a twin tuner. So, wouldn’t the twin tuner that comes with it be enough to have at least two of the satellites working, and if I need the third satellite I just need to add another twin tuner to the Ultimo?" I have omitted that it should say one FBC twin tuner, but I thought that was clear since I haven't seen anyone selling a brand new Ultimo 4K with a legacy tuner. 

 

3. But to be clear the Ultimo 4K I will buy will have the default FBC twin tuner setup.

 

4. I have not written anywhere that I will have a double tuner, just the FBC twin tuner.

 

 

 

So, when this is cleared up, if you can, please just answer me the way you suggest a setup. I'm posting the questions again for your suggested setup:

 

1.        So according to you I NEED a second FBC tuner? And even the third (legacy) for the third
satellite?

 

2.       And why would I only need two cables from the satellite dish when I will have three twin tuners installed in the box? Wouldn’t I need three cables? One for each tuner?
 

3.       Also, what’s the fuzz about the Unicable thing that supposed to carry all information in one cable, to a tuner. Now it means I will have to fill all tuner slots on my box (three twin tuners, where two are twin tuners FBC and one legacy twin tuner)
 

4.       So, the cable guy was right then?

 

 

 

So, @WanWizard has a suggestion for another setup. Why is you’re a better choice. With WanWizard’s setup I just need one FBC twin tuner that comes as default with the Ultimo 4K and it will be enough for what I need, as I wrote in the first post. And I would need only ONE cable from the satellite dish to my box.

 

In your setup, as I understand, I would need to have three twin tuners all together, two FBC twin tuners as well as one legacy twin tuner. And on top of that I would need to have one cable for each tuner from the satellite dish to the Ultimo 4K. Which makes it three cables from the satellite dish to the box, since you wrote the following: “once a tuner is locked onto a satellite, that tuner cannot select another satellite”.

 

Am I’m missing anything here?



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #9 Robinson

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:09

I am not a multiswitch expert and not even a user but I think you only need the following for a traditional and reliable setup:

- 3 x quatro LNB's

- 12+2 multiswitch,

- 2 cables running to your twin tuner.

As for Unicable and FBC, I do not have any experience with this either. They could possibly somehow simplify your setup but I think it is already simple enough.


Edited by Robinson, 26 August 2017 - 10:10.

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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #10 Erik Slagter

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:14

Stop calling an FBC tuner a twin tuner. It's really not the same and it doesn't help in understanding. An FBC tuner is an FBC tuner and a dual tuner is a dual tuner. Which are you going to have inside your Ultimo4k? It can have two FBC tuners and one single or dual tuner.


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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #11 WanWizard

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:23

If you don't need the FBC/Unicable functionality, just use the FBC card as a normal satellite tuner. Unicable switches, especially for more than 2 sats, are still quite expensive.

 

This is the setup with an EMP switch (which does 3 sats, 1 terrestrial, and has 6 outputs for tuners):

 

MS13_6_ECP-4-EN.gif


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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #12 40H3X

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:49

In addition to the posts above, in the WIKI, there is an explanation about the basics of FBC https://wiki.openpli...ll_Band_Capture


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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #13 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 12:54

Stop calling an FBC tuner a twin tuner. It's really not the same and it doesn't help in understanding. An FBC tuner is an FBC tuner and a dual tuner is a dual tuner. Which are you going to have inside your Ultimo4k? It can have two FBC tuners and one single or dual tuner.

 

Erik, it says om the Ultimo 4K site http://www.vuplus.com/sub/sub0116.php:
2 x Advanced Pluggable Tuner system for FBC DVB-S2 (16 Demodulators)

 

And the picture shows the following:
vu-plus-ultimo-4k-rear.jpg

 

Doesn’t that look like a twin tuner in the slot where it says Tuner A (FBC)?
And if it’s not, then what should I call it?

 

Also, as I asked before. For my setup do I also need tuners in the slots Tuner B (FBC) and

Tuner C (Single/Dual)? 

 

This feels more and more confusing, but at the same time interesting.



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #14 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 12:59

In addition to the posts above, in the WIKI, there is an explanation about the basics of FBC https://wiki.openpli...ll_Band_Capture

 

Thanks for the link. Also take a look at the following which is interesting: About Unicable



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #15 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 13:05

I am not a multiswitch expert and not even a user but I think you only need the following for a traditional and reliable setup:

- 3 x quatro LNB's

- 12+2 multiswitch,

- 2 cables running to your twin tuner.

As for Unicable and FBC, I do not have any experience with this either. They could possibly somehow simplify your setup but I think it is already simple enough.

 

 

Thanks. This is an interesting setup. But why would I need 3 quatro LNB's?
I’m only planning to have a TV in the living room not anywhere else.
Isn’t the Unicable solution the point of skipping such an intricate setup? With one cable only from the satellite dish?



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #16 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 13:14

If you don't need the FBC/Unicable functionality, just use the FBC card as a normal satellite tuner. Unicable switches, especially for more than 2 sats, are still quite expensive.

 

This is the setup with an EMP switch (which does 3 sats, 1 terrestrial, and has 6 outputs for tuners):

 

MS13_6_ECP-4-EN.gif

 

 

 

Wizard, I would like you to follow up from the #2 post in this thread, where you had an interesting solution. The money isn't a big deal so I'd prefer the Unicable solution which you mentioned. Please follow up on that lead.

 

I'm mostly interested in the ONE cable solution from the satellite dish and only have ONE slot occupied in the Ultimo 4K, 

Tuner A (FBC).

It's more interesting for me to have newer technology installed than going back to the old days, then I would just follow the advice of my cable guy with a zillion of cables and tuners installed in the Ultimo 4K.

 

/kerm



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #17 Erik Slagter

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 14:05

 

Stop calling an FBC tuner a twin tuner. It's really not the same and it doesn't help in understanding. An FBC tuner is an FBC tuner and a dual tuner is a dual tuner. Which are you going to have inside your Ultimo4k? It can have two FBC tuners and one single or dual tuner.

 

Erik, it says om the Ultimo 4K site http://www.vuplus.com/sub/sub0116.php:
2 x Advanced Pluggable Tuner system for FBC DVB-S2 (16 Demodulators)

 

And the picture shows the following:
vu-plus-ultimo-4k-rear.jpg

 

Doesn’t that look like a twin tuner in the slot where it says Tuner A (FBC)?
And if it’s not, then what should I call it?

 

Also, as I asked before. For my setup do I also need tuners in the slots Tuner B (FBC) and

Tuner C (Single/Dual)? 

 

This feels more and more confusing, but at the same time interesting.

If you'd rather be stubborn than like to understand, that is your choice.

 

Tuner A is not tuner A, Tuner A = tuner slot 1. Tuner B = tuner slot 2. Tuner C = tuner slot 3.

 

If fitted with FBC tuners, tuner slot 1 whill give you tuner A B C D E F G H. If fitted with FBC tuners, tuner slot 2 whill give you tuner I J K L M N O P. Tuner slot 3 will give you tuner Q and R.

 

It's unfortunate that VU+ keeps naming the tuner slots, tuners and inputs wrong.

 

An FBC tuner has ONE tuner slot, TWO inputs (attached to either tuner A and B or I and K) and EIGHT tuners.


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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #18 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 14:26

 

 

Stop calling an FBC tuner a twin tuner. It's really not the same and it doesn't help in understanding. An FBC tuner is an FBC tuner and a dual tuner is a dual tuner. Which are you going to have inside your Ultimo4k? It can have two FBC tuners and one single or dual tuner.

 

Erik, it says om the Ultimo 4K site http://www.vuplus.com/sub/sub0116.php:
2 x Advanced Pluggable Tuner system for FBC DVB-S2 (16 Demodulators)

 

And the picture shows the following:
vu-plus-ultimo-4k-rear.jpg

 

Doesn’t that look like a twin tuner in the slot where it says Tuner A (FBC)?
And if it’s not, then what should I call it?

 

Also, as I asked before. For my setup do I also need tuners in the slots Tuner B (FBC) and

Tuner C (Single/Dual)? 

 

This feels more and more confusing, but at the same time interesting.

If you'd rather be stubborn than like to understand, that is your choice.

 

Tuner A is not tuner A, Tuner A = tuner slot 1. Tuner B = tuner slot 2. Tuner C = tuner slot 3.

 

If fitted with FBC tuners, tuner slot 1 whill give you tuner A B C D E F G H. If fitted with FBC tuners, tuner slot 2 whill give you tuner I J K L M N O P. Tuner slot 3 will give you tuner Q and R.

 

It's unfortunate that VU+ keeps naming the tuner slots, tuners and inputs wrong.

 

An FBC tuner has ONE tuner slot, TWO inputs (attached to either tuner A and B or I and K) and EIGHT tuners.

 

 

 

Erik, I’m not stubborn. I’m sorry if it comes out that way. But it’s maybe the language that makes it that way. I’m Swedish and English is only mu second language so please don’t take my questions as a statement, but merely as stupid questions.  :( 

 

I’m very interested in technology, but when it comes to these things as the satellites and cablings I’m a total noob. I’m just glad you’re talking your time to listen and explain things to me.

 

So, if I understand you right I will indeed need all three tuners (all slots filled) to get what I need if you take a look at my first post. In this case I would then need three cables from the satellite dish, one for each tuner.  :huh: 



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #19 Robinson

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 15:08

 

I am not a multiswitch expert and not even a user but I think you only need the following for a traditional and reliable setup:

- 3 x quatro LNB's

- 12+2 multiswitch,

- 2 cables running to your twin tuner.

As for Unicable and FBC, I do not have any experience with this either. They could possibly somehow simplify your setup but I think it is already simple enough.

 

 

Thanks. This is an interesting setup. But why would I need 3 quatro LNB's?
I’m only planning to have a TV in the living room not anywhere else.
Isn’t the Unicable solution the point of skipping such an intricate setup? With one cable only from the satellite dish?

 

 

If you need to receive 3 satellites at the same time, you must have 3 LNB's. They are quattro because they will be conncected to a multiswitch (3 x (H Low, V low, H high, V high)). That makes 12 short cables from LNB's to your multiswitch at the dish. Then you will only have 1 cable running at home to your box.


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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #20 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 15:33

I am not a multiswitch expert and not even a user but I think you only need the following for a traditional and reliable setup:
- 3 x quatro LNB's
- 12+2 multiswitch,
- 2 cables running to your twin tuner.
As for Unicable and FBC, I do not have any experience with this either. They could possibly somehow simplify your setup but I think it is already simple enough.


Thanks. This is an interesting setup. But why would I need 3 quatro LNB's?
I’m only planning to have a TV in the living room not anywhere else.
Isn’t the Unicable solution the point of skipping such an intricate setup? With one cable only from the satellite dish?

If you need to receive 3 satellites at the same time, you must have 3 LNB's. They are quattro because they will be conncected to a multiswitch (3 x (H Low, V low, H high, V high)). That makes 12 short cables from LNB's to your multiswitch at the dish. Then you will only have 1 cable running at home to your box.
Thanks @Robinson

Now this explanation an imbecile like me starts to understand! :)
So with this scenario I would achieve the following:

1. I don't need a diseq since the multiswitch will take care of that?
2. Does the multiswitch need an external power source?
3. I need only have one cable from the satellite dish/multiswitch.
4. I just need one FBC tuner in the Ultimo 4K. Only the Tuner A (FBC) needs to be installed?
5. I can watch one tv show on one of the satellites and record another tv show on one of the other satellites?

Have I understood this right?

/kerm

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Edited by kermith, 26 August 2017 - 15:34.





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