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Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities


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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #21 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 16:00

How many receivers will be making use of this dish and LNBs?



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #22 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 16:04

How many receivers will be making use of this dish and LNBs?

I just need one receiver. One Ultimo 4K in my living room.

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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #23 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 16:17

Unless you use a unicable multiswitch, you will still need two signal wires to the receiver. In my opinion, it is far more economical  to use standard LNBs and two diseqc switches.



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #24 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 18:36

Unless you use a unicable multiswitch, you will still need two signal wires to the receiver. In my opinion, it is far more economical to use standard LNBs and two diseqc switches.

Thanks Abu, you may be right. But how many FBC tuners would I need in that solution?

I'm still very unsure which way to go. There's really not a super clear sharp answer I have gotten. In one way I would like to use the new Unicable technology but there are very few people that knows the answer for that solution with clear answers.

On the other hand there's the older technology that requires quatro LNB's and a multitude of wiring just for one box. And I still don't know how many FBC tuners I would need for that solution.

Then there's of course your advice which is also very interesting but I guess that would require two (or more?) tuners.

All I want is one box in my living room connected to one TV. I will have three LNB's so I will be able to watch tv-shows on these satellites.

And since I am a huge sports fan sometimes I need to watch Premiere league games on Astra 4.8 and at the same time record a hockey game which is on at the same time on Thor 0.8. Or vice versa.

I don't think I have such super duper requirements but still can't get a pin point answer.

Your suggestion may be the wisest and my cable guys advice not so bad after all. But at the same time the question lingers in my head is how many physical FBC tuners do I need in my box?

/kerm

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Edited by kermith, 26 August 2017 - 18:38.


Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #25 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 18:48

One FBC tuner card will be fine for most occasions. The one card is more than one tuner. This has been said several times in this thread. Please understand this first before you go any further. If you still do not understand it, the rest will just stay confused. Best you deal with understanding this first.

 

You can't get a pin point answer if you don't pin-point what you have/want to achieve Everyone's situation is different.

 

In my experience people assume and post assumptions and people respond to those assumptions. Once you have an assumption and do not let go, it just gets muddy. I appreciate the language issue.

 

IMO, it is best to set out what you want to achieve, and people will post options for you to consider. Once you have a set of options, you can explore the one that is most suitable for you.



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #26 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 19:17

I hope this picture explains things graphically. One FBC satellite tuner card installed.
 
Tuner A set to Diseqc ABCD
Tuner B set to Diseqc ABCD
Tuner C left as FBC Automatic
Tuner D left as FBC Automatic
Tuner E left as FBC Automatic
Tuner F left as FBC Automatic
Tuner G left as FBC Automatic
Tuner H left as FBC Automatic

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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #27 kermith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 19:35

I hope this picture explains things graphically. One FBC satellite tuner card installed.

Tuner A set to Diseqc ABCD
Tuner B set to Diseqc ABCD
Tuner C left as FBC Automatic
Tuner D left as FBC Automatic
Tuner E left as FBC Automatic
Tuner F left as FBC Automatic
Tuner G left as FBC Automatic
Tuner H left as FBC Automatic

Abu, you just explained it super great!
NOW I do get the whole picture! Of course this is a great solution that I would choose.

This makes that I can even record more than one tv-show at a time. I probably could record two games at the same time and watch a third, all at the same time!!

This is exactly what I wanted!

The real sorrow is that I wish Ultimo had room for 3 CI cards slots, but that's another problem that doesn't involve this particular question. I can just switch the CI card when I need it.

Huge thanks for great explanation!

/kerm

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Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #28 Erik Slagter

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:29

How many receivers will be making use of this dish and LNBs?

That's the wrong question. The question is whether how many TUNERS will be used. A VU+ Ultimo4k can have 18 tuners...


* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E/9E/4.8E/0.8W/5W via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
* Ziggo digital cable TV (FTA)
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #29 Erik Slagter

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:34

Next question is what transponders and positions the services are the ones that kermith wants to watch.

 

If all of them are on one position and they're also the same hi/lo band and polarisation, he can use all FBC tuners. Otherwise, he'll using only Tuner A and Tuner B (which may be sufficient, or not).


Edited by Erik Slagter, 27 August 2017 - 09:34.

* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E/9E/4.8E/0.8W/5W via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
* Ziggo digital cable TV (FTA)
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #30 kermith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:49

Next question is what transponders and positions the services are the ones that kermith wants to watch.

 

If all of them are on one position and they're also the same hi/lo band and polarisation, he can use all FBC tuners. Otherwise, he'll using only Tuner A and Tuner B (which may be sufficient, or not).

 

 

Now I'm puzzled. So Abu's setup will not be correct for the requirements I need/have? 



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #31 Erik Slagter

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 10:00

I don't know what your requirements are. Are you satisfied with watching one service and recording one other service? In that case the proposal, with two available tuners, will be sufficient. If not, you will have to look out for other configurations.

 

Possibilities:

 

- make sure your watching/recording channels are always on one position/band/polarisation, you'll be able to use all FBC tuners (eight of them).

- add another FBC tuner in slot 2, you will two additional independed tuners, make sure you use LNB's with four outputs and four DiSEqC switches

- add a dual tuner in slot 3, you will two additional independed tuners, make sure you use LNB's with four outputs and four DiSEqC switches

- use Unicable or JESS LNB's, you'll be able to use all eight FBC tuners indepently

- use a Unicable or JESS switch, you'll be able to use all eight FBC tuners indepently


* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E/9E/4.8E/0.8W/5W via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
* Ziggo digital cable TV (FTA)
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #32 kermith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:28

I don't know what your requirements are. Are you satisfied with watching one service and recording one other service? In that case the proposal, with two available tuners, will be sufficient. If not, you will have to look out for other configurations.

 

Possibilities:

 

- make sure your watching/recording channels are always on one position/band/polarisation, you'll be able to use all FBC tuners (eight of them).

- add another FBC tuner in slot 2, you will two additional independed tuners, make sure you use LNB's with four outputs and four DiSEqC switches

- add a dual tuner in slot 3, you will two additional independed tuners, make sure you use LNB's with four outputs and four DiSEqC switches

- use Unicable or JESS LNB's, you'll be able to use all eight FBC tuners indepently

- use a Unicable or JESS switch, you'll be able to use all eight FBC tuners indepently

 

 

 

@Erik Slagter, @Abu Baniaz, @WanWizard

 

Now that was what I call a great rundown of possibilities and explanations. Of course, most of it would require some deeper knowledge about the setup and prerequisites of what one would need. 

 

And Eric, yes, ALL I want to do is:

 

1.       Watch one channel for example on the satellite Astra 4.8 where I watch a Premiere League game that starts at 4 pm.
 

2.       At the same time, there will be a hockey game starting but on Thor 0.8.
 

3.       I want to record the hockey game on Thor 0.8 and continue to watch the Premiere League game that I will watch on Astra 4.8.
 

4.       That is basically all I want to do, maybe sometimes I want to record on both satellites when I’m not at home. I mean wo recordings at the same tie.
 

5.       Will that be possible with Abu’s setup?

 

Abu’s setup and picture explains to me the following:

A. I need one satellite dish.

B. I need three Universal Twin LNB’s
C. I need two separate DISEq switch 4/1
D. Then when above setup A-C is done, connect a coax cable from each of the DISEq switch 4/1, which will make it two coax cables to the Ultimo.

E. The Ultimo will be equipped with Tuner A (FBC), which has two LNB inputs.
F. Then of course in the setup of the Ultimo I just make the according changes.


 

Is this correct thinking? According to the requirements I have in steps 1-5?
Or Am I totally out in the blue?  :huh:
 

 

Regards
/kerm



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #33 booky

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:31

Hi @kermith,

 

I believe this is what you want:

 

Quote from your original post:

All I need is to be able to receive 3 satellites. I would like to have the possibility to record a program on one satellite and watch another program on the other satellite. How many LNB’s and tuners do I need? And how many cables do I have to have from the satellite dish to the Ultimo 4k?

 

To my opinion the cheapest solution with the ultimo 4k is as follows without the need of the fbc technology:

 

You need the ultimo 4k with one tunercard with two tuners. (can be "traditional"/non fbc s2 tuners) and three normal lnb's with two outputs. (unicable lnb's are more expensive)

 

two diseqc switches with three inputs from each lnb and one output to each the two tuners on the tunercard on your ultimo 4k. (two cables to your ultimo 4k)

 

With this setup you should be able to record a tv channel and watch a tv channel at the same time from two different satellites.

 

This is a traditional setup and it does not use fbc technology but it meets your requirements and it's the cheapest solution. (It will even work with a less expensive hd/4k receiver which does not support fbc tuners)

 

regards,

 

Jean Pierre

 

 

 



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #34 WanWizard

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:49

Kermith,

 

You are sure of these limitations? I've got 4 tuners in by current livingroom box, and regularly all 4 are busy, sometimes with 4 to 6 recordings. 


Currently in use: VU+Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), Amiko Viper T2C (T2), SAB Alpha Triple HD (S2+T2), Zgemma H3.T2C (T/C), Zgemma H6 (fallback), VU+Zero (fallback)

Many answers to your question can be found in our new and improved wiki.

note: I do not provide support via PM !

 


Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #35 kermith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:50

Hi @kermith,

 

I believe this is what you want:

 

Quote from your original post:

All I need is to be able to receive 3 satellites. I would like to have the possibility to record a program on one satellite and watch another program on the other satellite. How many LNB’s and tuners do I need? And how many cables do I have to have from the satellite dish to the Ultimo 4k?

 

To my opinion the cheapest solution with the ultimo 4k is as follows without the need of the fbc technology:

 

You need the ultimo 4k with one tunercard with two tuners. (can be "traditional"/non fbc s2 tuners) and three normal lnb's with two outputs. (unicable lnb's are more expensive)

 

two diseqc switches with three inputs from each lnb and one output to each the two tuners on the tunercard on your ultimo 4k. (two cables to your ultimo 4k)

 

With this setup you should be able to record a tv channel and watch a tv channel at the same time from two different satellites.

 

This is a traditional setup and it does not use fbc technology but it meets your requirements and it's the cheapest solution. (It will even work with a less expensive hd/4k receiver which does not support fbc tuners)

 

regards,

 

Jean Pierre

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks @booky!!

 

Then I’m getting a grasp here, finally.  :D 

The reason I want to buy the Ultimo is first and foremost that OpenPli has support for it. I’m an OpenPli – addict :blink: . The second reason and also very important is that it has room for two CI+ cards.

 

I have two CI+ cards from two different providers here in Sweden and they are supposed to work on OpenPli and Ultimo, from what I have read on our Swedish forums.

 

I hate the boxes that the TV providers send out for “free”. They are really ugly and my wife wouldn’t have me setting up two of their horror boxes. She said that the Ultimo 4K looks good, so for the peace of it I’ve settled with the Ultimo.

 

The only thing that bothers me with the Ultimo 4K is their remote controllers which looks pretty cheap and are very small. But my wife says she likes it, so there we go. If somebody has a better advice on a sturdier and better remote than the one that comes as default I’m all ears, and would sneak it in gradually.  :ph34r: 

 

Kind Regards

/kerm



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #36 kermith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 12:04

:huh:

Kermith,

 

You are sure of these limitations? I've got 4 tuners in by current livingroom box, and regularly all 4 are busy, sometimes with 4 to 6 recordings. 

 

 

Wizard, now you're making me anxious again.  :wacko: 

Am I doing the right thing? What I understand though is that the CI+ cards are paired and I don't think they will allow to make any extra recordings like 2 or 3. I think they will only allow another recording on the same transponder. Well, here we go again, I'm talking about something I'm not really that good at.

 

Can I actually record more programs than one with a CI+ setup? I know a friend that once had setup a Oscam server for me that would allow that but then I would lose HD possibilities and some channels.

 

But I've done tinkering with Oscam, it always ended that my friend would had to come over and fix the mess I have done. So that is not an option for me. Just straight CI+ in to the Ultimo and I'm all set to watch my Leicester matches. Not to forget some Bundesliga games as well, that I like a lot.  :)

 

 

/kerm

 

 



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #37 Erik Slagter

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 12:08

CI(+) can only descramble one transponder (tuner) at a time.


* Wavefrontier T90 with 28E/23E/19E/13E/9E/4.8E/0.8W/5W via SCR switches 2 x 2 x 6 user bands
* Ziggo digital cable TV (FTA)
I don't read PM -> if you have something to ask or to report, do it in the forum so others can benefit. I don't take freelance jobs.
Ik lees geen PM -> als je iets te vragen of te melden hebt, doe het op het forum, zodat anderen er ook wat aan hebben.

Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #38 kermith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 12:24

CI(+) can only descramble one transponder (tuner) at a time.

 

Thanks Eric, that's what I was "afraid of". But that is ok. I'm not a super duper recorder guru.

I have their Play services on my tablet so I could also stream things to my Chromecast in case I've missed something to record or can't record.

 

/kerm



Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #39 WanWizard

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 13:25

The CI restriction was new to me.

 

In that case multiple tuners are useless, as the CI can handle only one transponder at the time. Unless what you want to record is from another provider and doesn't use that CI.


Currently in use: VU+Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), Amiko Viper T2C (T2), SAB Alpha Triple HD (S2+T2), Zgemma H3.T2C (T/C), Zgemma H6 (fallback), VU+Zero (fallback)

Many answers to your question can be found in our new and improved wiki.

note: I do not provide support via PM !

 


Re: Still can't grasp the FBC and Unicable setup possibilities #40 kermith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 14:56

The CI restriction was new to me.

 

In that case multiple tuners are useless, as the CI can handle only one transponder at the time. Unless what you want to record is from another provider and doesn't use that CI.

 

 

Well, that's the problem with TV providers. They restrict stuff for people. And no wonder people get frustrated and find "alternative" solutions to make it work as it supposed to work. Letting CS services making money on it. It is a very strange policy capping such possibilities just because people don't want to use their horrible boxes.

 

/kerm






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