346 replies to this topic

[Abu Baniaz]

How many receivers will be making use of this dish and LNBs?

That's the wrong question. The question is whether how many TUNERS will be used. A VU+ Ultimo4k can have 18 tuners...

I beg to differ. It is the right question and comes up higher up in the logic process.
The number of tuners question/answer comes after establishing the number and also the capability of receivers.
I agree with the asking about the number of tuners to be used.

We have established that he is only using one receiver, so the question/debate is pointless. However the considerations would have been:
If several receivers will be connected, the multi-switch route would be better.
If one or more of the receivers cannot use unicable, we would have to dismiss the unicable route or use a multi-switch with a legacy output.

As you have mentioned/hinted, it is possible to lock the two "actual" tuners on the FBC tuner card. (You have referred to it as a "complex").

So, the four cables is a more robust install. It is cheaper to install cables in one go even not used than add afterwards.

Another option is:
Install two FBC cards (and a maybe a twin card card).
Do not use the diseqc switches.
Use unicable LNBS instead of universal ones and connect all direct to the receiver.

This is where the FBC tuner + unicable LNB combination will pay dividends.

[Erik Slagter]

Really, the amount of receivers is not relevant at all. It's the tuners that get connected to LNB's and switches, not receivers. People tend to be confused here and I want to prevent that.

[Abu Baniaz]

People get confused on lots of forums. I share your desire to avoid this.

If a person also had a receiver/device that was not able to use unicable. Is that not relevant? For example, a TV with built-in satellite tuner or provider's official reciever.

As this thread and numerous others have shown, people get confused about number of tuners versus number of tuner cards. That is before we even involve FBC tuners. Anyway, If establishing number of tuners, then if all devices/tuners will be compliant with technology is the way you want things done, than I will do that while here.

[ColinB]

Sorry guys I really have tried hard to read on and googled but still can’t grasp the FBC and the Unicable stuff. Please bear with me.

I’m planning on buying the Ultimo 4k and set up a satellite dish with LNB’s that will point at three different satellites. They are:

1. 0.8W INTELSAT 10-02
2. 4.8E SIRIUS 4
3. 13E EUTELSAT 9A | EUTELSAT HOT BIRD 13B | EUTELSAT HOT BIRD 13C

I had the cable guy here today and the satellite dish would be fine to use, no trees or houses on the horizon so I can connect to three satellites. What bothers me a little is that he said, and I think he’s wrong, that I need three twin tuners in my box to make it work for watching a program on one satellite and record a tv-show from another satellite at the same time.

 

Ultimo 4k comes with a twin tuner. So, wouldn’t the twin tuner that comes with it be enough to have at least two of the satellites working, and if I need the third satellite I just need to add another twin tuner to the Ultimo?

 

He also says that I need to have two coax cables to the box from the satellite dish. Is that right?
I still don’t get the whole thing with the Unicable stuff. I thought I just needed one cable for the whole setup from the dish to my box.

 

All I need is to be able to receive 3 satellites. I would like to have the possibility to record a program on one satellite and watch another program on the other satellite. How many LNB’s and tuners do I need? And how many cables do I have to have from the satellite dish to the Ultimo 4k?

 

I would appreciate any advice before I do anything stupid. 

 

/kerm

 

@Kermith,

 

I've had a good read through this post and though a few of pictures might help clear up the confusion.

 

I found this which I believe is what your talking about (sorry for the size). It shows a Twin DVB-S2 FBC tuner card installed in the STB. I can be use either as a 2x DVB-S2 or a FBC tuner.

 

 1002.PNG   90.55KB   10 downloads

 

This example (better pic) has (2) Twin DVB-S2 FBC tuners. Which is equal to 4x DVB-S2 or 2x FBC tuners or 2x DVB-S2 & 1 FBC tuner.

 

 1001.PNG   819.28KB   6 downloads

 

Conventional Setup

This is a passive switch that will let you connect each DVB-S2 tuner to all of your 3 satelittes.Each tuner can record and play independantly. You will need one for each tuner. They are typicaly mounted at the back of the dish. Each LNB output will connect to one of the (4 / 8) ports on the switch and a single cable cable will come into the house to each DVB-S2 tuner. If you buy quad LNB's this will let you expand up to 4 DVB-S2 tuners for each satellite or use a multiswitch. This is what I have been using for years. All confuration is done on the STB via DiSEqC 1.1 in the tuner configuration menu and is realy simple once shown how.

 

 1003.PNG   85.68KB   5 downloads or 8 way  1004.PNG   97.34KB   6 downloads

 

A multi switch will need quad LNB's and need 4 inputs for each satellite and outputs for each tuner.

Exp 3 satellites 12way mutiswitch. 4 satellites 16way multiswitch It can get very expensive needs power and weather protection

 

FBC Setup

 

While I have no direct experience on this, my understanding is this.

 

Idealy you will need a FBC LNB for each satellite. An single cable will connect each them to a FBC multiswitch which could be located inside your house. From there you connect to your STB

 

Cabling

 

Depending on your dish location cabling is a big consideration. My main dish (4 satellites) is 2m high on south facing wall. It's easy for mantainance and cable runs are small. The other (single satellite) is at the roof line facing south west, but I still chose to run 4 cables to my switch location, however if I needed more satellites at that height then I would have to consider relocating the swiches there or in your option switching to FBC

 

Cheers Col

Edited by ColinB, 1 September 2017 - 08:09.

[Erik Slagter]

I must stress once again, there is no such thing as an FBC LNB or an FBC switch.

Edited by Erik Slagter, 1 September 2017 - 08:51.

[ColinB]

Stop calling an FBC tuner a twin tuner. It's really not the same and it doesn't help in understanding. An FBC tuner is an FBC tuner and a dual tuner is a dual tuner. Which are you going to have inside your Ultimo4k? It can have two FBC tuners and one single or dual tuner.

 

@Eric, well this is not the retailers info that I have searched through seems to sugguest.

 

As a minimum the STB for satellite use anyway, will have a tuner capable of both Twin DVB-S2 & FBC.

 

 Options.PNG   73.11KB   6 downloads

Attached Files

•  Options 2.PNG   480.79KB   0 downloads

[Erik Slagter]

Yes I know VU+ calls it a twin tuner, but it doesn't help for the understanding. They do other stuff that also don't help, like calling the first tuner slot "A", the next "B" and the last "C", even though slot "A" will give tuners ABCDEFGH, slot "B" will give tuners IJKLMNOP and slot "C" will give tuners QR. SO they should have called them tuner slot 1, 2 and 3.

 

So again, a FBC tuner is a SINGLE tunerslot, with TWO physical inputs and EIGHT tuners (demodulators).

[Zeerob]

Thanks for all the useful info here!

Just to clear things up, could you please confirm my two statements below:

 

Statement 1:

If I have a Vu+ UNO 4K receiver with the FBC tuner, and I have a dish with a normal LNB (not unicable) that is connected to the FBC tuner with a single coax cable, then I will be able to watch/record multiple channels (max 7?) simultaneously, as long as they are all on the same transponder.

 

Statement 2:

If I have the same receiver and two dishes, each with a normal LNB, and both LNB's are connected to the FBC tuner card (two coax cables), then I will be able to watch/record max 8 channels simultaneously, as long as not more than one transponder is involved on each dish.

 

Thanks!

[WanWizard]

Statement 1: Yes. the FBC tuner input will behave like a standard tuner. 

Statement 2: Yes.

 

I can't confirm the exact number in both cases, I don't have a Uno 4K and don't know what the technical limits are.

[betacentauri]

Regarding 1: Isn't it a like "loop through" so that you are able to record not only the one transponder but also everything in the same vertical/horizontal/high/low layer like the first watched/recorded service?

Edited by betacentauri, 8 October 2017 - 18:30.

[WanWizard]

Not if it is a standard LNB, as that needs to be switched to a quadant, it can only receive one at any given time. A Unicable LNB doesn't have that restriction.

[betacentauri]

Yes, a standard LNB is switched on a quadrant by one of the tuners. The other 7 can then be used via loop through. So I think you can record up to 8 transponders in the same quadrant. (That's what I tried to write in my post above). Is that right?

[WanWizard]

Yes, that is correct. I read it as "also able to record other quadants at the same time", which is not the case.

[Zeerob]

Ah, thanks a lot! So the statements were not fully correct and would better be like this:

 

Statement 1:

If I have a Vu+ UNO 4K receiver with the FBC tuner, and I have a dish with a normal LNB (not unicable) that is connected to the FBC tuner with a single coax cable, then I will be able to watch/record multiple channels (max 7?) simultaneously, as long as they are on transponders in the same quadrant (vertical/horizontal/high/low layer).

 

Statement 2:

If I have the same receiver and two dishes, each with a normal LNB, and both LNB's are connected to the FBC tuner card (two coax cables), then I will be able to watch/record max 8 channels simultaneously, as long as all involved transponders are on the same quadrant on each dish.

 

Thanks!

[WanWizard]

Check!

[Abu Baniaz]

Not 100% correct. Where/how did you get the maximum number of channels from? It is difficult to specify a number of channels because transponders have different number of services. The number you have mentioned relates to the number of transport streams you can access.

[WanWizard]

I didn't really look at that, but that is indeed correct.

 

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to define an absolute maximum.

 

An FBC tuner complex has 2 inputs and 8 tuners. If you connect the FBC complex with a single coax (so using only one of the two inputs), the tuners will be able to receive transponders from a single quadrant. If you select 8 different transponders for each of the tuners, and you assume each transponder carries 8 channels, you already have 64 simultaneous channels. This exceeds by far the decryption ability of every box, and if you assume all those channels are FTA, it will exceed the hardware capacity of the box.

[Erik Slagter]

Indeed the amount of channels to be recorded simultanuously can vary a lot. If you have a transponder that by chance has 12 services and all of them you want to record, they can all be record using a single tuner. On the other hand, if all your services are on separate transponders, you will need one tuner for each service. And that is when the special traits of the FBC start to become interesting. If all transponders to be recorded happen to be same quadrant (hi/lo band, vertical/horizontal), the FBC complex is able to loop through up to seven tuners. That is what sets an FBC tuner complex aside from a regular dual tuner.

[beka2]

Hello,

Allow me to resurrect this topic since I am very interested in understanding this FBC technology to perhaps implement it, and people here seem to be knowledgeable and give good answers.

 

It appears to be different for normal LNB and unicable LNB regarding the amount of quadrants you can use per tuner.

What about the fibre solution from global invacom, does it work the same as those Unicable LNBs from inverto, since it sends all frequencies down a single fibre ?

 

Basically FBC tuners can use all quadrants from a single sat, is this right ?

Can a FibreIRS Quad GTU be used by the FBC tuner as a unicable solution since it sends the 4 quadrants ?

[Erik Slagter]

What about the fibre solution from global invacom, does it work the same as those Unicable LNBs from inverto, since it sends all frequencies down a single fibre ?

No clue here.
 

Basically FBC tuners can use all quadrants from a single sat, is this right ?

No. In a regular setup they're just two normal tuners and six "leaf" tuners that enigma connects to one of them when required. In a SCR setup they're eight independent tuners.