346 replies to this topic

[GThomas]

If I can confirm that it'll work- I think I'll offer them this:

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[GThomas]

Why, oh why, when there's a way to get it done, there's always someone with an alternative?

I just been emailed this with brief explanation:

Set diseqc AA for first LNB,
Set diseqc AB for second LNB,
Set diseqc BA for third LNB,
Diseqc setting BB stays empty (no more LNBs)

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[GThomas]

OK, I've done as much digging as I can afford by now (time is running kind of low)

And if I could ask one more time, I really really hope- last time, can anyone confirm/deny that:

Tuner A can be set to send diseqc code limited only to the channel it is assigned? Therefore not switching "the whole cable" but only its own channel?
Can same principle be applied to other tuners of the cluster?

Ie:

Assuming that UB channels are assigned:

Tuner A Chan 1
Tuner B chan 2
...
Tuner H chan 8

Tuner A needs signal from LNB1, sends diseqc AA on chan1, is given LNB1 on chan1( actually a requested portion of LNB1, as per unicable spec)

And SIMULTANEOUSLY Tuner B, needing LNB2, will be able to send diseqc AB on chan2, and receive LNB2 on chan2

And so on for other tuners?

Edited by GThomas, 25 October 2018 - 14:31.

[WanWizard]

Afaik you can't mix DiseqC and SCR's, so no clue where this story comes from. 

 

And afaik the Inverto's need to be programmed for either standard or SkyQ mode, but can't do both at the same time. And you also can't mix the two on the cable due to the different user band frequencies and bandwidth. 

[GThomas]

Story comes from a shop, i provided link few posts ago.

Owner of that shop claims to have it set up this very way for his own use (not sure what receiver, though- possibly "Max S8").

Shops correspondence quotes:

99% of tuners in the market support diseC, so you can use from all userbands Diseq A (AA), B (BB) C (BA) and D (BB).

If you need only 3 LNB, no Problem, the last D is free.

Hi,

we have also an FSB Tuner in Stock (Max S8) and he need only one Unicable input and you can select from all tuner all sat position.

Any Tuner gets an Userband and Frquency. You have 32 Userbands, and can distributet over one Cable to all Tuner.



Any Tuner send commands, please SAT A (Wideband LNB SAT A) and on this Userband you get SAT A, aso.



Unicable II Set - 4 Satelliten - Wideband LNB

https://www.digital-...eband-lnb?c=232

so, what you are saying is that i can set each tuner for 3 satellites, with diseqc AA/AB/BA, then each tuner has its own UB channel..

So in FBC cluster:

Tuner A, needs signal from LNB1, sends diseqc request on UBchannel1 (AA) and is given signal from LNB1

And SIMULTANEOUSLY

Tuner B, needs signal from LNB2, sends diseqc request on UBchannel2 (AB) and is given signal from LNB2

And SIMULTANEOUSLY

Tuner C, needs signal from LNB3, sends request on UBchannel3 (BA), is given LNB3

?

If it really works this way- I like it!

But I need to be sure and my client wants answers on Saturday..

Yes, this is correct. (it´s sure)

Inverto has a system, you make programming the first Unicable Multiswitch SAT A und B, and the second SAT C and D (or SAT C when you use an Quattro LNB). Ober an combiner you connect both output’s to one cable.



I have this install in our house, and it is works.

[Erik Slagter]

Why, oh why, when there's a way to get it done, there's always someone with an alternative?

I just been emailed this with brief explanation:

Set diseqc AA for first LNB,
Set diseqc AB for second LNB,
Set diseqc BA for third LNB,
Diseqc setting BB stays empty (no more LNBs)

DiSEqC has no relation with Unicable, so what are you targeting at? You either use legacy, DiSEqC, Unicable or JESS. You can't mix and match. Although some SCR switches have one or more special "legacy" outputs, that can be controlled by either legacy or DiSEqC. Some SCR switches also support DiSEqC on the SCR outputs. But never simultanuously with actual SCR.

 

legacy or DiSEqC means whole cable is filled with one of the four quadrants.

SCR means only one frequency is used (the user band) and it's tuned by the SCR switch (or SCR LNB).

 

So they are mutually exclusive by design.

Edited by Erik Slagter, 25 October 2018 - 16:26.

[WanWizard]

I think the shophowner has a legacy setup.

 

So altough he uses Unicable capable switches and wideband LNB's, his receiver isn't configured for SCR's, but just uses a DiseqC A/B/C/D setup to address the four sat positions.

 

Which works for a single cable per tuner, but not for an FBC tuner module where all 8 tuners need to be able to select any transponder from any of the four positions.

[GThomas]

Why, oh why, when there's a way to get it done, there's always someone with an alternative?
I just been emailed this with brief explanation:
Set diseqc AA for first LNB,
Set diseqc AB for second LNB,
Set diseqc BA for third LNB,
Diseqc setting BB stays empty (no more LNBs)

DiSEqC has no relation with Unicable, so what are you targeting at? You either use legacy, DiSEqC, Unicable or JESS. You can't mix and match. Although some SCR switches have one or more special "legacy" outputs, that can be controlled by either legacy or DiSEqC. Some SCR switches also support DiSEqC on the SCR outputs. But never simultanuously with actual SCR.

legacy or DiSEqC means whole cable is filled with one of the four quadrants.
SCR means only one frequency is used (the user band) and it's tuned by the SCR switch (or SCR LNB).

So they are mutually exclusive by design.

Makes sense.

But then, why would inverto themselves put such a shematic on their website?

One look and its obvious that every receiver in the building must be unicable.
And yet there's 4 dishes, so receivers simply must make the selection somehow?
Its just not possible do do something like drawn on legacy wiring.
And in the same time it would be same impossible if multi switches didn't support diseqc, including unicable.

From inverto's installation manual for multi switch:

DiSEqC™ commands extension according to CENELEC EN50494 and/or EN50607

Doesn't say much more, but the very presence of word "extensions" in it makes me think its diseqc + more.

So maybe normal diseqc+ unicable diseqc? I'm not versed enough to name it properly, just trying to relay an idea.

Home page for multiswitch:


http://beta.inverto....serter-included

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Edited by GThomas, 25 October 2018 - 17:04.

[WanWizard]

EN50494 are Unicable extensions, EN50607 are JESS extensions.

 

And yes, both standards use extensions to the existing DiseqC protocol to send commands to the switch or LNB.

[Erik Slagter]

To be more precise, they both use the link layer protocol of DiSEqC. They do not use DiSEqC commands. This fact is quite confusing for many people, apparently.

 

@TS See what I wrote earlier, by design, you cannot share legacy and DiSEqC setups with a SCR setup over the same cable!

[GThomas]

Well.. Thecessence of the issue is still the same..

Can I use a set of 2 of these to get 8 simultaneous transponders from 3 satellites, using a FBC cluster?

[WanWizard]

Not sure what you mean by "cluster", but yes, this setup can provide up to 32 different transponders from 4 sat positions to connected tuners.

 

Those Inverto switches are supported by OpenPLi, you can select them when you configure the tuner:

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[GThomas]

Thank you.

In the post above: FBC cluster- typically an FBC tuner (often card, like in vu+ ultimo), 2 F inputs, 8 tuners.

[WanWizard]

With an FBC tuner complex in a Unicable setup you only need 1 cable and 1 input. The second input on the card is only used in legacy mode (where it emulates a dual tuner), of when you directly connect a wideband LNB.

[GThomas]

Correct.

We went trough this 2 pages ago

After that, the main issue seemed to be to make every combination of 8 transponders always available on that single cable.

Ended up with 3 possibilities:

Programmable unicable LNBs, 32UB each, but only 8 of each used- nice, not expensive, not expandable.
JESS switch- even nicer, terribly expensive, expandable (cascade).

And now

Inverto multiswitches- much cheaper than JESS, bit unlike LNBs- expandable by cascade.

Now I get to tell it to the client

[WanWizard]

If SKY wasn't given the opportunity to create and maintain their monopoly, this expertise would have been available.

[GThomas]

True.

But then again- it is a bit like blaming that proverbial lion for eating the lamb.

Sky is a business.
I'm yet to see a business that hasn't got as its sole purpose: making money.
And sky seems quite good at it, that's all.
They play dirty.
So?

Does any of the giants play nicely?
Microsoft? Apple? Still fresh in the ranks- Google?

They all want to tie you up so you have no alternative but to pay.

Its called "securing future profits"

And is only showing what world do we live in

[WanWizard]

I know all that. But that doesn't mean I like it.

[GThomas]

Same here.. same here...

 

But lets stop worrying about lions chasing us and instead focus on running as quickly as we can, eh?

Lets see who`s faster

[GThomas]

Oh, and just a thought:

 

If one day i would need to expand the lot by a SkyQ, all i need to to is to pick up wideband trunk outputs (corresponding to correct LNB) from multiswitch and feed these 2 to SkyQ box. nothing more.

Sky Q CAN use unicable

but most of the installs seem to be by wideband (H+V) LNBs anyway

 

so- why not?