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Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace


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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #41 WanWizard

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 18:34

I mean that I can receive DVB-T from multiple stations. The all broadcast the same channels, but for example the news channel is localized. The service refs after a scan will be exactly the same for both channels.

 

Related problem, I can have two DVB-T tuners (or two DVB-C tuners), "connected" to two different providers. But Enigma doesn't know which tuner to use, since both will generate service refs with the same namespace on a scan. 

 

For DVB-S this is adressed because the orbital position is the first four positions of the namespace, which Enigma uses to keep the service ref unique, and allows it to select the correct tuner. For DVB-C and DVB-T, due to the hardcoding of the namespaces (EEEE0000 and FFFF0000), this mechanism doesn't work.


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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #42 Abu Baniaz

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 18:47

@wanwizard, which mast is your aerial pointed to?

 

https://ukfree.tv/maps/alphabetical


Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #43 WanWizard

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 18:51

I have a mast from the GSO which points to Sutton Coldfield, but my own can also receive Nottingham and Waltham (the advantages of living high up ;)).

 

But it is not my situation perse, it is a generic question. For example, quite a few people on the Dutch/German or Dutch/Belgian border would like to receive both, so you need a mechanism where selecting a "dutch" service ref selects the tuner connected to the Dutch aerial, and when selecting a "german" service, to select the German tuner.

 

Same is true for two different DVB-C providers, which the guy in the Dutch forum asks about.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #44 Robinson

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 19:02

Interesting how this thread evolved from my simple question regarding the reason to ignore or not ignore the namespace. :)


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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #45 jpuigs

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 22:05

 

I have never observed this on 28.2, which is my primary provider?

It is how it is done on 28.2E. When a transponder is going to change frequency the new transponder is switched on several days beforehand and both transponders are run at the same time. Service ref is identical on both.

 

 

So, I supose the answer to my question (When Sky at 28ºE moves a transponder, it creates a copy on a new frequency several days before deleting it, and when scaning new one, it overwrites old channels.

So I understand that enabling that parameter will make possible to store both equal transponders)  is yes.


Enigma is getting old....

 

Spoiler

Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #46 Huevos

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:04

@WanWizard, for the DVB-T problem make a config setting so namespace subnet can be turned on and off individually based on DVB type. Should be able to do that with just small changes to Athoik's original commit. I think this is a valid request. In Holland SID/TSID/ONID/namespace is identical on the regional channel even though content is different at different transmitters. So namespace subnet would work here, while without it viewing more than one region is impossible.

 

For DVB-C the problem is correlating the provider with a specific tuner. That is nothing to do with namespace. IMO using namespace for tuner selection is a hack. You need to think of a way to code things so there is an entry in lamedb where a specific tuner or tuner group is selected for a certain provider. e.g. save a tuner mask.

 

But anyway whoever heard of a cable box that can be set up for 2 providers at the same time? Half the time the hardware makes it impossible anyway. i.e. only one socket on a twin tuner or FBC receiver. IMO it is a nasty hack for something that would almost never get used, and complicating the code for all others.



Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #47 Huevos

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:06

 

P


But [...]

 

PS: many of the entries on your list are also old or not necessary (e.g. all with ONID = 1 are matched per default in C++), and the entry on 19,2 1:1028 is not existing as duplicate.

 

Ok, removing the ONID = 1. Updated from Lyngsat right now, looks like this;

orb -1190 onid/tsid 4097:732 freqs 12172 12185 
orb -1190 onid/tsid 4100:6591 freqs 12224 12239 
orb -1100 onid/tsid 4102:2048 freqs 12472 12501 
orb -727 onid/tsid 4101:912 freqs 12384 12443 
orb -700 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3656 3695 
orb -700 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3955 3978 
orb -580 onid/tsid 5002:101 freqs 3840 3880 
orb -555 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3759 3763 
orb -530 onid/tsid 177:176 freqs 4004 4009 12138 
orb -475 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3843 4032 
orb -431 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3717 3842 3872 
orb -405 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3627 3628 3652 3835 4136 
orb -405 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3667 4121 4145 
orb -405 onid/tsid 177:176 freqs 3699 4132 4151 
orb -405 onid/tsid 8192:4096 freqs 3854 3968 4043 4054 
orb -405 onid/tsid 0:3 freqs 3870 4130 
orb -405 onid/tsid 92:27 freqs 11640 11680 
orb -315 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 12341 12344 
orb -245 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3930 4081 4086 4121 
orb -220 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3732 12673 
orb -180 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 4069 11113 
orb -140 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 10974 11456 
orb -80 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3825 3840 
orb -80 onid/tsid 0:13662 freqs 4135 4171 
orb -80 onid/tsid 1918:65500 freqs 12604 12687 
orb -70 onid/tsid 2048:1 freqs 11559 11747 
orb -50 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3646 4021 
orb -50 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3652 3743 4100 4156 4162 
orb -50 onid/tsid 8442:3 freqs 11456 12648 
orb -50 onid/tsid 8442:1 freqs 11480 11509 
orb -30 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3874 11462 12516 
orb 30 onid/tsid 8192:4096 freqs 3667 3694 
orb 30 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3717 3779 3797 4173 4186 11456 11460 11476 11485 11487 11496 11606 11608 11610 11645 11673 11681 12519 12531 12714 12719 
orb 30 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3795 3986 11457 11507 
orb 30 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3969 4031 4178 12571 
orb 48 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3691 3713 3850 3865 
orb 48 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3693 3853 
orb 48 onid/tsid 8192:4096 freqs 3695 3702 3858 3883 3887 3892 3991 3996 4001 
orb 48 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3843 3844 
orb 48 onid/tsid 94:1 freqs 12322 12360 
orb 70 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 11046 12556 
orb 70 onid/tsid 126:60300 freqs 11356 11419 12604 
orb 90 onid/tsid 85:91 freqs 12111 12149 
orb 100 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3677 3688 3709 10836 10956 10959 10962 11164 11570 11645 12509 
orb 160 onid/tsid 366:50200 freqs 10928 11470 
orb 160 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 10977 11004 11016 
orb 160 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 11024 12570 12597 
orb 160 onid/tsid 366:50500 freqs 11554 11637 
orb 160 onid/tsid 366:50800 freqs 11595 11596 
orb 200 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3720 3796 3974 
orb 216 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 11480 11484 11488 11499 11532 11543 11667 11670 11672 11693 12513 12537 
orb 216 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 11491 11599 
orb 255 onid/tsid 224:1070 freqs 11642 11669 
orb 260 onid/tsid 702:26 freqs 12015 12149 
orb 360 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 11491 11586 12520 12572 12712 
orb 360 onid/tsid 253:34 freqs 12034 12360 
orb 380 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3762 3831 4074 4101 
orb 380 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3782 3806 3818 3824 4047 4081 4130 
orb 380 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3856 3979 3992 4004 4031 4054 4184 
orb 380 onid/tsid 8192:4096 freqs 4089 4133 
orb 390 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 11496 11556 
orb 400 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3557 3565 3573 3577 3581 3585 3589 3593 3739 
orb 400 onid/tsid 8835:2 freqs 3558 3563 3566 3574 3579 3584 3588 3593 3612 3615 3617 3634 3638 3643 3665 3712 3728 3736 3737 3772 3784 3862 3867 3927 3979 3993 
orb 400 onid/tsid 8835:3 freqs 3558 3563 3574 3579 3584 3588 3593 3612 3615 3617 3634 3638 3643 3665 3712 3728 3736 3737 3772 3784 3862 3867 3927 3979 3993 
orb 400 onid/tsid 8835:1 freqs 3615 3665 
orb 420 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 10987 12009 12446 
orb 420 onid/tsid 1070:43302 freqs 11833 11855 
orb 420 onid/tsid 1070:40601 freqs 11977 12015 
orb 460 onid/tsid 8192:4096 freqs 4080 4147 
orb 460 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 11024 11134 
orb 460 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 11095 11175 
orb 490 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3635 3640 3644 3735 3752 3832 3961 
orb 530 onid/tsid 8835:1 freqs 3665 3715 
orb 530 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 11474 11480 11488 12631 
orb 549 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 10968 12531 
orb 570 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3665 3679 11042 
orb 600 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3764 3767 3772 
orb 620 onid/tsid 3622:800 freqs 10989 10995 10997 
orb 620 onid/tsid 43981:4660 freqs 11016 11026 
orb 642 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3654 3775 4066 
orb 685 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3777 3795 4090 11014 11078 12657 
orb 685 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3913 4092 
orb 685 onid/tsid 100:1 freqs 4034 4070 
orb 685 onid/tsid 6144:136 freqs 11474 11674 
orb 685 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 11521 12638 
orb 765 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3793 3815 3985 3998 4009 4050 4056 4092 4122 4125 4135 
orb 765 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 4003 4016 
orb 785 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3425 3520 3665 3696 3741 
orb 785 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3441 3841 
orb 830 onid/tsid 4:1 freqs 3936 4040 
orb 865 onid/tsid 0:12 freqs 11642 11649 
orb 865 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 11645 11650 11651 11653 11654 11656 11658 11659 
orb 900 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3582 3594 3617 
orb 900 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3588 3920 3924 
orb 900 onid/tsid 8835:66 freqs 4046 4106 4124 4126 4144 
orb 915 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3720 3760 
orb 915 onid/tsid 2176:106 freqs 11182 11562 
orb 915 onid/tsid 999:6 freqs 12563 12643 
orb 935 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3802 3840 
orb 965 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3838 3843 4108 4114 
orb 1055 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3725 4065 4146 
orb 1055 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3739 4091 12316 
orb 1055 onid/tsid 164:19 freqs 4020 4165 
orb 1130 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3762 3786 4154 
orb 1130 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 4110 4122 
orb 1155 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 3680 3750 3846 3854 3960 
orb 1155 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3871 3971 
orb 1155 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3929 3951 
orb 1160 onid/tsid 4369:1 freqs 12350 12390 12430 12523 12670 
orb 1180 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3415 3464 3547 3887 4185 4192 
orb 1180 onid/tsid 8192:4096 freqs 3444 3448 3570 3622 3773 
orb 1250 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3845 3909 3933 
orb 1250 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3893 3989 
orb 1250 onid/tsid 0:1 freqs 4006 4013 
orb 1320 onid/tsid 176:1 freqs 12257 12746 
orb 1380 onid/tsid 0:0 freqs 3866 3888 
orb 1400 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3571 3577 3589 3627 3632 
orb 1400 onid/tsid 177:176 freqs 3584 3874 
orb 1400 onid/tsid 4369:1 freqs 3675 4179 
orb 1590 onid/tsid 65535:1 freqs 3888 3897 


Edited by Huevos, 17 December 2017 - 05:06.


Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #48 Huevos

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:11

@WanWizard, for the DVB-T problem make a config setting so namespace subnet can be turned on and off individually based on DVB type. Should be able to do that with just small changes to Athoik's original commit.

Or just turn on the setting before doing the DVB-T scan and turn off again afterwards. But still you have EPG-import problem either way.



Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #49 Huevos

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:14

Or, have namespace subnet as a scan parameter, not a config setting.

 

Edit: but I think these suggestions probably break when using background scan.


Edited by Huevos, 17 December 2017 - 05:16.


Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #50 WanWizard

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 13:17

For DVB-C the problem is correlating the provider with a specific tuner. That is nothing to do with namespace. IMO using namespace for tuner selection is a hack. You need to think of a way to code things so there is an entry in lamedb where a specific tuner or tuner group is selected for a certain provider. e.g. save a tuner mask.

 

But anyway whoever heard of a cable box that can be set up for 2 providers at the same time? Half the time the hardware makes it impossible anyway. i.e. only one socket on a twin tuner or FBC receiver. IMO it is a nasty hack for something that would almost never get used, and complicating the code for all others.

 

Possibly.

 

However, that is how it works for sattelite, and since for both DVB-T and DVB-C the namespace is fake, hardcoded and a hack anyway (with only one purpose, to be able to see that a T or C tuner has to be used), it is therefore logical to extend this hardcoded scheme with a mechanism to be able to select WHICH T or C tuner should be selected, identical to the way an S tuner is selected.

 

The big question is how, with what, and how do you keep this aligned so channel lists are still interchangable?

 

It seems again logical to use the sub namespace for this, so images can check for EEEE or FFFF to select T or C, and ignore the sub namespace if they don't want to implement tuner selection. It also solves the EPG problem, as you remove the chance of a duplicate service ref between two C or T providers.

 

Any other solution requires separate solutions for S and for C/T, a lot more code, changes to lamedb or another structure, and loses compatibility for channel lists. So for me that is a no.


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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #51 Huevos

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 15:13

@WanWizard, when is DVB-T multiple provider? And obviously you can't have multiple providers on the same terrestrial frequency so namespace subnet "on" will work fine in that scenario. If we had config.namespace subnet by dvb type the DVB-T problem would be solved.

 

As far as the DVB-C problem goes only one user has ever requested this. Is this the sort of project PLi want to put effort into when there are so many more important features that could benefit a lot of users.



Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #52 WanWizard

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 15:20

When you have two DVB-T tuners, connected to two different antenna's, pointing to two different transmitters?

 

For example, you live on the border, and you are in the coverage of both the transmitter in your own country, and in a neighboring country. The case for example with a lot of Dutch people (who grew up watching German and Belgian TV).

 

If this is solved for terrestrial, it can be solved for cable to without any extra effort. It can easily be done using the last 4 positions of the namespace, the challenge is what value to use, and how to make sure this value is generic and fixed per provider (so EPG can be created, and channel lists are interchangable).

 

It would be cool if a unique provider ID could be found in one of the DVB data structures, that could be used.


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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #53 mrvica

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 15:34

It can easily be done using the last 4 positions of the namespace, the challenge is what value to use

I´ve read in another board that some DVB-T italian channels use it already, i.e. RAI 1 HD

1:0:1:218C:4:13E:EEEE0204:0:0:0



Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #54 WanWizard

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 15:46

It may be the network ID, which defines the provider? It would be interesting to find out.

 

It would make it easy, just have a dropdown in the tuner config so the user can select their provider, and the corresponding ID gets used as the sub namespace? Solves the EPG and channellist problem as well, that specific service ref uniquely identifies "RAI 1HD" from that specific provider.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #55 athoik

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 15:53

I can offer a patch for enabling / disabling per type the subnetwork.

Although I think we are looking on the wrong direction.

First we need to make sure that xml epg can work without issues.

Nobody checked the key that epg database has, and guess, namespace is not part of the key.

Regarding the lamedb - tuner relation, it can be done, but let's gather all the requirements in a separate thread!
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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #56 WanWizard

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 16:00

The imported XML EPG is based on the complete service reference, which does have the complete namespace in it. I don't know how it is stored internally, but I assume the same, otherwise the key can never be unique?


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #57 mrvica

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 16:13

was discussed here too, https://forums.openp...tt-epg-missing/



Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #58 Huevos

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 16:13

I can offer a patch for enabling / disabling per type the subnetwork.

That would be good.



Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #59 WanWizard

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 16:14

All these issues interlink. Which makes it even more imported to think this through thoroughly.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: Service scan - ignoring DVB namespace #60 WanWizard

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 16:16

BTW, using the network id isn't foolproof either, since you can easily have two DVB-T tuners pointing to two diffferent local transmitters, for example for regional channels. Both transmitters will use the same network id.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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