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Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x


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#1 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 11:56

I´m using an et9200 with openpli 4.x and two uno4kse with openpli 6.1rc and 6.1rel. All boxes are connected to a legacy multiswitch with two cables, So the uno4kse can only use 8 transponders of two quadrants of the Astra satellite.

 

 

Today I´ve seen an my uno4kse with openpli 6.1 that a timer starts, which needs a new tuner, doesn´t switch the live stream to the neccessary channel. Instead of that it uses the fallbacktuner of the remote box.

The situation was.

A recording runs for 3SAT HD. (V-low band)

The live TV shows Tele5 HD.(H-high band)

Then the  next timer will start for ONE HD (H-low band) which needs a transponder in a third quadrant so with my two legacy cable can´t provide that. I expected that the live TV must be interrupted and must give the tuner to the timer for ONE HD.

 

On openpli 4.x that works ok on my et9200. But with openpli 6.1 on my uno4kse it doesn´t work. The timer uses the fallbacktuner to record the movie.

 

Because the fallbacktuner ist not safe I think the handling of fallbacktuner on openpli4.x was well but in openpli 6.1 it was different and not ok for safe recordings.

 

Did you made changes in the fallbacktunerhandling or has it to do with the FBC tuners in the uno4kse?

 

If I disable fallbacktuner than it works as I expected bug than I must use a remote bouquet to use a remotetuner for live TV. That is not so smart as using fallbacktuner for live TV.


Edited by anudanan, 5 February 2018 - 11:58.

Receiver:2 x Uno4k SE (PLI 7.0 rel), 1 x ET9200 (PLI 4.0), NAS: 2 x QNAP 410, TV: LG 50PS8000, LG 47LB570V, LG 42LM615S, Sound: Yamaha RX-v663, Teufel System 5 THX


Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #2 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 13:12

I´ve found out in openpli 4.x there is a configswitch for the recordhandling of fallbacktuner

 

The parameter is

config.usage.remote_fallback_recording_enabled

I´ve set it to false in my et9200

 

I can´t found this parameter in the setting menus of openpli 6.1


Receiver:2 x Uno4k SE (PLI 7.0 rel), 1 x ET9200 (PLI 4.0), NAS: 2 x QNAP 410, TV: LG 50PS8000, LG 47LB570V, LG 42LM615S, Sound: Yamaha RX-v663, Teufel System 5 THX


Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #3 WanWizard

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 13:22

Een snelle zoektocht in de code leert me dat die inderdaad niet meer bestaat. Maar ook in de OpenPLi 4 code vind ik deze niet terug.

 

Een want zorgvuldiger zoektocht levert deze op: https://github.com/O...06124f14b7323e5, ergo verwijderd op 14 maart 2016 door Erik.

 

Het lijkt er op dat de bedoeling van die optie iets heel anders was, en jou ervaring een "bij-effect" die je toevallig goed uit kwam. Ik denk dat Erik hier maar even op moet reageren...


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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #4 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 13:29

I´ve seen in your GIT that the parameter for enable/disable fallbacktuner were revertet on 14. march 2016. 

 

What are the reason for that. Did you have problems with the function of enable/disabling fallbacktuner for recordings?

For me it works very well

 

 

 

Revert "Enabled/disabled fallback tuner for recordings seperately"  …
 
@eriksl
eriksl committed on 14 Mar 2016
 
 
The Parameter was integrated with this checkin
 
Enabled/disabled fallback tuner for recordings seperately 
 
@littlesat
littlesat committed on 15 Feb 2016

Edited by anudanan, 5 February 2018 - 13:29.

Receiver:2 x Uno4k SE (PLI 7.0 rel), 1 x ET9200 (PLI 4.0), NAS: 2 x QNAP 410, TV: LG 50PS8000, LG 47LB570V, LG 42LM615S, Sound: Yamaha RX-v663, Teufel System 5 THX


Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #5 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 13:50

I´ve tested the enable/disable fallbacktuner recording switch on my et9200 with openpli 4.x

 

If I enable the fallbacktuner for recordings, the openpli 4.x makes the same mistake as openpli 6.1. It doesn´t interrupt the live TV and use the fallbacktuner.

 

But I think the comment of eric in 

https://github.com/O...06124f14b7323e5

 

is right? Normally it is not possible to programm timer for using remotefallbacktuner. 

 

But the handling of openpli 4.1 with remotefallbacktuner recording switch set ot false is exactly the methode which must be use everytime if a user wil use a remote fallbacktuner. That makes only sense for live TV. It is not neccessary to configure these parameter to True/False. But the handling must be so as the parameter hat the false value

 

 

So I think there is an issue in openpli 6.1 around handling recordings and using fallbacktuner (the use of fallbacktuner is very smart, so i will use it)


Edited by anudanan, 5 February 2018 - 13:50.

Receiver:2 x Uno4k SE (PLI 7.0 rel), 1 x ET9200 (PLI 4.0), NAS: 2 x QNAP 410, TV: LG 50PS8000, LG 47LB570V, LG 42LM615S, Sound: Yamaha RX-v663, Teufel System 5 THX


Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #6 littlesat

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 13:53

Actually it is never smart to plan a recording via a fallback tuner as there is no guarantee it will succeed.... Actually it is a must to plan all timers on the 'server' box... this is the only guarantee that the recording is checked if it succeed...

 

So I indeed fully agree with Erik. Splitting up this parameter makes no sense at all... Instead use plugins that can program a timer remotely...


Edited by littlesat, 5 February 2018 - 13:54.

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #7 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 14:08

I´m fully agree with you that it makes no sense to use the fallbacktuner for recordings. I don´t want to do that

But openpli 6.1 uses somtimes the fallbacktuner instead of switch the live TV to the recording channel if free tuners are not available. 

 

So I suggest there is an issue in openpli 6.1 and in openpli 4.1 the fallbackrecordingswitch can workaround the bug.

 

Is now clear what I mean?

I will not have the fallbackrecording switch back but I will use fallbacktuner for live TV and not for recordings 


Receiver:2 x Uno4k SE (PLI 7.0 rel), 1 x ET9200 (PLI 4.0), NAS: 2 x QNAP 410, TV: LG 50PS8000, LG 47LB570V, LG 42LM615S, Sound: Yamaha RX-v663, Teufel System 5 THX


Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #8 WanWizard

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 14:08

@littlesat,

 

As I read it, the TS doesn't want to plan a recording via de fallback tuner, the TS wants to PREVENT the fallback tuner to be used for the recording.


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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #9 littlesat

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 14:29

When you plan a timer by default the backup tuner is not checked.... But i think this item might required some 'smart' thinking....E.g. always block recordings when you are on 'fallback'...


Edited by littlesat, 5 February 2018 - 14:29.

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #10 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 15:02

And if recordings will start the box must use the local tuners instead of using fallbacktuners as today. It is better to take the local tuner for live TV and switch to the channel for recording. The user can than switch back to the live TV and than the box will use the fallbacktuner for live TV. That must be the goal.

Edited by anudanan, 5 February 2018 - 15:03.

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #11 WanWizard

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 15:11

I think we all agree on that. Let's wait for Erik's response on why it was reverted.


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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #12 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 16:59

I´ve found in
servicedvbrecord.cpp
 
the prepare record service methode
 
 
Is it possible that the bold lines for trying Fallbacktuner produce the using of the fallbacktuner for recording?
Is the solution to delete the tryfallbacktuner lines to prevent recordings from using fallbacktuner?
 
 
 
int eDVBServiceRecord::doPrepare()
{
/* allocate a ts recorder if we don't already have one. */
if (m_state == stateIdle)
{
  eDVBServicePMTHandler::serviceType servicetype;
 
if (tryFallbackTuner(/*REF*/m_ref, /*REF*/m_is_stream_client, m_is_pvr, m_simulate))
  eDebug("ServiceRecord: fallback tuner selected");
 
if (m_streaming)
{

Edited by anudanan, 5 February 2018 - 17:01.

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #13 WanWizard

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 17:11

No, because that would remove the feature for the group of people that do want to use the fallback tuner. Because they have a stable server, a box without tuners, or a box without the correct type of tuner, so local recording isn't possible at all.

 

So the only good solution is bring the configuration key back, so you as a user can control weather or not you want this.

 

And I'm still waiting for Erik to get back from work and tell us all what his reason was for reverting it.


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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #14 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 17:23

You mean there are users who will do recordings from fallbacktuners?

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #15 WanWizard

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 17:30

Yes, plenty. And I don't see why not, it works fine. If you have the correct infrastructure and a stable stream.

 

If you have a Zgemma I55, you even have to, as it doesn't have any local tuners... ;)

 

What shouldn't happen, is switch to the fallback tuner if you don't want to, or if a local tuner is still available. The first was sort of implemented before, the second never. So it has to be looked at anyway, it's not simply reintroducing the old code...


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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #16 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 17:46

And they program timers without conflict detection to use falllbacktuners for timer?

Edited by anudanan, 5 February 2018 - 17:47.

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #17 WanWizard

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 18:06

Yes, as you can't do conflict detection.

 

Obviously, it depends a bit with what you have on the other side. If that is a box with one or more FBC tuners (DVB-C or Unicable), chances that a remote stream is not available is very slim.  


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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #18 Erik Slagter

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 18:19

Sigh. I hesitate to reply here. Some people think (a.o. Littlesat) that fallback tuners should never be considered for recordings. Other people think they should always be considered. Many religious level discussions have been in the past and I don't want to repeat them one more time.

 

Re-introducing this option will not solve anything, definitely not what you're complaining about. If you don't understand, I suggest you read the comment that accompanied the commit, again.

 

That is all I have to say on this matter.

 Revert "Enabled/disabled fallback tuner for recordings seperately"

This reverts commit 65250a2.

 - it's confusing
 - it doesn't actually do what it suggests
 - there is no advantage really

When you use this option and set it to "no", the only difference
is that a recording that already couldn't be made in the first place,
now also won't be made using the fallback tuner, so it always fails.

This option works at the wrong level, at this point the user cannot
be informed so the only options are:

 - make the recording using the fallback tuner
 - don't make the recording at all (and thereby failing)

So this option is useless. It should be implemented at user-interface
level, i.e. in the timer conflict detection. If one doesn't disable
the conflict detection explicitly, fallback tuners won't be considered
for timer recordings anyway.

Edited by Erik Slagter, 5 February 2018 - 18:19.

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #19 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 18:36

But how can I use the fallbacktuners for live TV and not for recordings. It is nice to use it. and easier than using remotebouquets for live TV if any tuners are blocked with recordings. But today it is random if a timer use local tuners or the fallbacktuners. My remote box for falllback can‘t garantee their tuners behause the box makes their own recordings. I can say in the past it works fine but now not

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Re: Why is the handling of fallbacktuner and timer in 6.1 different to pli 4.x #20 anudanan

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Posted 5 February 2018 - 21:23

I´ve thought some hours about eric´s comment but I can´t  agree it.

 

My thought about fallbacktuner use cases are the following. I think there are 3 user groups

 

1. users who don´t want using fallbacktuner:

They can disable fallbacktuner and everything is ok

 

2. users who will use fallbacktuner for recordings and live TV

They must enable fallbacktuner

They have stable remote tuner which can be used as fallback tuners

They must disable the timer conflict detection to program more time than local tuners

The box than use first the local tuners but doen´t interrupt live TV and use the fallbacktuner for the recordings which can´t use local tuners

That is exactly that what openpli 6.1 actual does

That is really ok for that users

 

3. users who will only use fallbacktuner for live TV because the remote boxes can´t garantee the availability of tuner for remote. This is ok for live TV but not for recordings

They must enable fallbacktuner

The use time conflict detection to program only movies which can be served by all local tuners

Therefor the last tuner which is used by live TV must be switched to the timer channel, but today that doesn´t work because the box use exactly in that situation the fallbacktuner. That is onla happend if you look live TV when the last tuner is needed

The enable/disable switch for recordings with fallbacktuner from march 2016 has done exactly that what this user group 3 expected

 

True is the same an now in openpli 6.1 and ok for user group 2

False makes the situation ok for user group 3

 

So my question is, why is that switch so bad. I can´t understand it and I know from my 3 boxes with openpli 4.x it works very well and there is a diffferent between True and False of that switch. 

Today the user group 3 can´t user fallbacktuner for live TV only and must disable fallbacktuners. From my point of view it works better with the old switch.

Receiver:2 x Uno4k SE (PLI 7.0 rel), 1 x ET9200 (PLI 4.0), NAS: 2 x QNAP 410, TV: LG 50PS8000, LG 47LB570V, LG 42LM615S, Sound: Yamaha RX-v663, Teufel System 5 THX





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