90 replies to this topic

[nautilus7]

The challenge ( I wouldn't say problem ) is the same for all open source development projects. 
 
They start by some "geek" in an attick room, for his (usually) own pleasure. At some point other "geeks" join in, code gets published, people outside the scene start using the project, and before you know it, you have "endusers".
 
Now the dynamic of the project changes. And usually it changes in two possible directions:

• the project doesn't want "endusers" nor the responsibility, "geeks" abandon the project, or retract back to their atticks
• the project "professionalizes", the project changes to adapt to the new audience, attention is given to support, user interface, documentation, release cycles, versioning, etc

OpenPLi is (and has been for the last few years) struggling between the two, being sort of "forced" by events to take the second path due to the popularity of the project.  Professionalizing requires a completely different team organisation, it needs to create some hierarchy in the anarchy, and it requires different still sets as new roles in the organisation need to be created.

WanWaizard, I've been using openpli (and openpli based images) since I got my first enigma box, back in 2012.

 

The last year or so I am trying to contribute some code (nothing major, just small fixes here and there) as an opportunity to learn python, while making better something that I actually use every day. It didn't took me much time to realize (perhaps because I am not a 20 year old kid) that you belong to the 2nd category above. You approach things in a more modern and professional way than others. It's a shame most of the others don't have the same perspective like you.

[nautilus7]

@ MCelliotG, "power" can be translated to "ενέργεια", "energy" in English, which is better, because we use it in Greek. Windows 10 (yes I will use windows again as an example, just for getting ideas) use just "Power" which is being translated to "Παροχή ενέργειας".

 

This is not 100% accurate translation, but it is better. That's why, at some point in the past. I suggested you do not make your translation to Greek 100% accurate to the original English, but you ware against. I hope you can see my point now.

 

Also, having the word "menu" for describing a menu option is redundant. It's like inside the "Settings" menu, we have "gui settings", "expert settings", etc...

Edited by nautilus7, 20 October 2018 - 00:35.

[WanWizard]

It didn't took me much time to realize (perhaps because I am not a 20 year old kid) that you belong to the 2nd category above. You approach things in a more modern and professional way than others. It's a shame most of the others don't have the same perspective like you.

 
Indeed, I think one should do, whatever it is one does, either well, or not at all. And it helps that I've spend the past 15 years in project management and architect roles, instead of pure technical roles.
 
On the other hand I do get the problem some people have with it, if you are a developer by profession, and you write code 40 or more hours per week being chased by schedules, deadlines and managers, the last thing you want is to continue that in your spare time. This makes it so difficult to find developers that don't just want to do it "for fun", but for (their love for) the product. Which means you may need to write a feature you won't use yourself, or fix a bug you don't have... Not easy...

[nautilus7]

On the other hand I do get the problem some people have with it, if you are a developer by profession, and you write code 40 or more hours per week being chased by schedules, deadlines and managers, the last thing you want is to continue that in your spare time. This makes it so difficult to find developers that don't just want to do it "for fun", but for (their love for) the product. Which means you may need to write a feature you won't use yourself, or fix a bug you don't have... Not easy...

I totally understand this and I don't blame anyone.

 

I just blame the "everything looks great, don't change anything, everything would have to be re-translated" attitude.

Edited by nautilus7, 20 October 2018 - 00:45.

[WanWizard]

"everything would have to be re-translated" can be avoided by changing the po files when the original is changed, so the current translation stays active until the translator changes it. 

[MCelliotG]

In any case I think "Standby and restart options" is the most accurate. And quite more translation friendly IMO!

@nautilus7
Power is not directly translated to "ενέργεια" and this is exactly why Windows used "Παροχή" alongside with it to describe a power on/off situation. In languages, meanings are classified in classes, and "ενέργεια" is a third class meaning for "Power".
"Ενέργεια" also refers to "Action" (higher class for this word). This makes it even more complicated for a user when they view it as a standalone string. That's why context always matters, but this is not the case in enigma2 where a menu has to be described with a couple of words max!

Besides, I told you before there's a difference between a literal and a contextual translation and an interpretation. If I take a string and translate it with completely different words, I make an interpretation. Usually interpretations are avoided in technical jargon as they tend to be perceived subjectively!
This makes me very reluctant to freely translate an Enigma2 string, as my subjective views for a string's meaning are always up for ongoing debates.

Edited by MCelliotG, 20 October 2018 - 01:19.

[Abu Baniaz]

A "Customer Experience" department usually decides what should be presented to the end user. This design is then given to the programmers who make it happen.

No Enigma2 team has such a setup.

We went through a similar stage when our menus got changed. The fact that translations have to be done should not hinder improvement.

Please remain respectful and cordial with each other. It is OK to disagree.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Forum Fiend v1.3.3.

[Pr2]

 

But when "Standby / restart" is renamed to "Power options" should I keep the translation already present? It would make no sense.

 

It is better to show users with other languages the original translation than an English string. 

 

 

For the fact to keep the current translation was first quoted by WanWizard, I just second this idea.

 

All this discussion is totally pointless why do you want to change all the naming in the menu (why change deep standby that will also need to be changed in other places) since everybody is used to it and perfectly understand what it does?

This is just a change to induce confusion in people mind that will bring zero new feature to the image.

 

Fixing english mistake in text make sense, having a discussion to add new feature make sense, changing a menu entry location to another menu to improve the logic and make menu better makes sense, willing to change something that everybody perfectly understand just to make it "like Windows" is pointless.

 

I never read any complaints on any forum about this menu, which today express clearly what it does and the inner entries are also very clear.

If you dislike the / we can consider replacing it with a & or "and".

[MCelliotG]

I second this idea (Standby & Restart)! lol

[Robinson]

Hmmmm, I like "Power Options" which is very accurate, but I'm afraid it won't translate well to other languages.

 

To me it does not really matter if names are kept or changed but I would say the atatched should translate into Greek quite well.

Attached Files

•  Power Options.jpg   80.2KB   4 downloads

[Taapat]

I think the argument that you need to change to specific words, because it's easy to translate, is wrong.

You can never translate mechanically.

In this case, you will have a lot of funny and incorrect translations.

You must always understand what each option is doing and interpreted so that it can be understood on the local language, regardless of what is written in english.