35 replies to this topic

[Rob van der Does]

If you don't need support, fine, use one of the OE-A derived images. It is as simple as that.

So you suggest that none of the OE-A teams provides support?
Or you suggest that none of the OE-A teams has manufacturer support?
You're wrong in both assumptions....
Even more:
some of the teams have excellent support from/contact with some of the manufacturers.
and some of the teams provide excellent user-support.

Please be careful with those generalisations, especially if you have no experience with those aspects.

Although working together in some respects, there is a huge difference between the (15 or so) OE-A teams.

Edited by Rob van der Does, 13 November 2018 - 09:16.

[Frenske]

I guess Wanwizard gave his opinion based on our personal experience with Dinobot. Nothing more nothing less.

And that was, at least if I recall right, just after the IBC which was dated september 2017. 

[WanWizard]

This was a specific response related to the question about Dinobot, and my experience with the level of manufacturer support from Dinobot (which isn't a manufacturer imho, but a box-mover, out for a quick buck), which is exactly zero.

 

I personally would never buy an electronic device from such a brand, but if others are not bothered with buying a lemon, there are others that have an image available, such as OE-A. 

[Rob van der Does]

This was a specific response related to the question about Dinobot, and my experience with the level of manufacturer support from Dinobot (which isn't a manufacturer imho, but a box-mover, out for a quick buck), which is exactly zero.
 
I personally would never buy an electronic device from such a brand,.....

OK, thanks for the clarification.
 

......but if others are not bothered with buying a lemon, there are others that have an image available, such as OE-A.

There we go again: there is no such thing as an OE-A image. The OE-A has over 15 members (image building teams), which are all quite different (in quality/behaviour/attitude/user-support)
I do agree though that especially ATV (just one of the OE-A members) just builds about everything they can. Booting seems indeed to be a sufficient 'quality mark', although even that isn't always the case....

[WanWizard]

Sometimes Rob, you have a problem reading, or at least understanding what people write.

 

We are talking here about a brand, and support from the driver developers off that brand. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with whatever end-user support you can get from an image building team. If there is a driver issue, non of them can help you if they can't report the issue back and can't get that issue addressed. And WE refuse to release an image on that basis, as WE feel we can't properly provide support without manufacturer backing.

 

As for the drivers, all 15 use the same OE (the one from the OE-Alliance, aka OE-A), with the same drivers, the rest is window dressing on top of that from the different teams, and not relevant for the point I want to make. If there is a driver issue, all teams with an OE-A based image will have the same problems. And no way to get a solution if you can't get Dinobot to fix it.

[Rob van der Does]

Well, maybe I do. But I do often read quite a lot of misunderstandings regarding the OE-A.

There are OE-A members who do have the same attitude as PLi though: no manufacturer support = no image. But that certainly doesn't apply to ATV.

 

Regarding drivers: of course that's true. And the same applies to every image builder, as they all depend on drivers supplied by STB-manufacturers.

Edited by Rob van der Does, 14 November 2018 - 04:22.

[WanWizard]

Regarding drivers: of course that's true. And the same applies to every image builder, as they all depend on drivers supplied by STB-manufacturers.

 

Which is the only point I was trying to make.

[toura8]

Thanks Openpli moderator. I have planned to buy this box today. I changed my mind after seeing your remarks. We need to be sure how much serious is the manufacturer before spending our hardly owned money for his product. Thaks again.

We require direct manufacturer support and access to the driver development team in onder to support a box.

 

We had an initial request from Dinobot which was never followed up, so I guess they are not interested.

[twol]

Lets be clear about this:
OpenPli is a nice, well supported great image, but just because they do not supply OpenPli needs does not mean manufacturers are rubbish....
It just means that in many cases they can achieve their market requirements by other means, and get market penetration through these channels.
For those that love OpenPli its an issue, but for many manufacturers it‘s not a big impact to their revenue if they don‘t support OpenPli.

[mimisiku]

Not true, "running on OpenPli" IS definately a positive sales argument for those boxes. Even going as far as copying an OpenPli version for their boxes, just to make sure it sells. Their only goal being to sell as many in the shortest possible time. Support is for the OpenPli forum so they don't have to borher about support.. OpenPli is the Windows for Linux STB's which most can understand.

[WTE]

Lets be clear about this:
OpenPli is a nice, well supported great image, but just because they do not supply OpenPli needs does not mean manufacturers are rubbish....
It just means that in many cases they can achieve their market requirements by other means, and get market penetration through these channels.
For those that love OpenPli its an issue, but for many manufacturers it‘s not a big impact to their revenue if they don‘t support OpenPli.

 

That's true but for this box the support from manufacture side is very poor, beside the support Openpli boxes you have manufactures which try but can't and you have some manufactures which don't need Openpli.

Edited by WTE, 1 March 2019 - 20:37.

[twol]

Not true, "running on OpenPli" IS definately a positive sales argument for those boxes. Even going as far as copying an OpenPli version for their boxes, just to make sure it sells. Their only goal being to sell as many in the shortest possible time. Support is for the OpenPli forum so they don't have to borher about support.. OpenPli is the Windows for Linux STB's which most can understand.

Thats your personal opinion .... but unless you have market analysis to back up totally irrelevant ... if you were correct there are a few Brands that would not be in business ... but if you have market data?

[twol]

Lets be clear about this:
OpenPli is a nice, well supported great image, but just because they do not supply OpenPli needs does not mean manufacturers are rubbish....
It just means that in many cases they can achieve their market requirements by other means, and get market penetration through these channels.
For those that love OpenPli its an issue, but for many manufacturers it‘s not a big impact to their revenue if they don‘t support OpenPli.

That's true but for this box the support from manufacture side is very poor, beside the support Openpli boxes you have manufactures which try but can't and you have some manufactures which don't need Openpli.

The point I was making (having no reseller interest) is that because a receiver is not on OPenPli‘s support list doesn‘t make it a good box or bad box ......... its much more reasonable to ask user‘s of the brand what they think .. although often the answers also tend to be biased!
I currently for my sins have receivers from 5 different Brands, of which 3 are not supported by OpenPli and at least 2 of those are really good 4K receivers offering everything thats available currently in terms of audio and video.

........ but obviously if you need to have OpenPli its not that difficult to build your own OpenPli Image for an „unsupported“ receiver

Edited by twol, 1 March 2019 - 21:09.

[WanWizard]

I theory, you do have a point.

 

However, what we tend to see is that the main reason for not wanting to work with us is because of a lack of technical expertise.

 

We require manufacturers to provide us with a fully working BSP, that they have to maintain. Being able to do so shows prospective buyers they have the expertise and the commitment to support the product, and allows us a direct channel back, so we can translate issues reported by end-users to a technical description their development team can understand, so the issue can be fixed.

 

Most of these brands are "OEM box movers", they don't have any technical staff at all, and either use drivers supplied by the OEM manufacturer, or pay a third party to supply / maintain them. Which they are very reluctant to do. What they have they throw over the wall to the likes of OE-Alliance, and let them create a BSP for it. With no service and support whatsoever.  Note that not all should be tarred with the same brush, like with everything, there are positive exceptions here too...

 

So no OpenPLi image also means you're talking about a vendor that perhaps find its bottom line more important that its customers. Which doesn't really inspire any confidence in the product and its after sales service. 

[twol]

Many valid point in yo

I theory, you do have a point.
 
However, what we tend to see is that the main reason for not wanting to work with us is because of a lack of technical expertise.
 
We require manufacturers to provide us with a fully working BSP, that they have to maintain. Being able to do so shows prospective buyers they have the expertise and the commitment to support the product, and allows us a direct channel back, so we can translate issues reported by end-users to a technical description their development team can understand, so the issue can be fixed.
 
Most of these brands are "OEM box movers", they don't have any technical staff at all, and either use drivers supplied by the OEM manufacturer, or pay a third party to supply / maintain them. Which they are very reluctant to do. What they have they throw over the wall to the likes of OE-Alliance, and let them create a BSP for it. With no service and support whatsoever.  Note that not all should be tarred with the same brush, like with everything, there are positive exceptions here too...
 
So no OpenPLi image also means you're talking about a vendor that perhaps find its bottom line more important that its customers. Which doesn't really inspire any confidence in the product and its after sales service.

I agree many valid points in your post ..... unfortunately many vendors take easiest path to the market and if they find help on the way they will take it as this is a cut throat business where bottom line (like everywhere) is becoming the deciding factor coupled with fast penetration into Asian markets..... and that is also true of some really good Brands.
The point is if a specific box is missing from a Brand (be it OpenPli or say OpenViX) doesn‘t make it a bad box, but you are absolutely correct in that an image shouldn‘t throw away its principles just to support vendors.... good, average or could do better

[Ziegenmelker]

Hi,

I have this Box and it works great. Before I had this Box I only used Openpli. Now I use OpenATV. It works stabil. I don't have any Problems and the Support is OK.
I think most Users only want a good working STB. If it works with OpenATV, Openpli or something else doesn't matter. For the Specialists could it be a Different...

Greetz Ziegenmelker

Edited by Ziegenmelker, 2 March 2019 - 10:16.