43 replies to this topic

[HWTest]

I have a VU+ Duo2 with a DVB-S2 dual tuner (and a DVB-C/T2 dual tuner).

On my T90 there are eight twin LNBs connected through two 8x1 DiSEqC switches to the Duo2.

I've upgraded (replaced) the Duo2 with an Ultimo4k.

The Ultimo4k has one FBC complex - FBC tuner card with two inputs, eight tuners (and a DVB-C/T2 dual tuner).

I would like to upgrade the LNBs and switches, so I can make better use of the FBC tuner.

Now I'm limited to one quadrant of one orbital position per tuner input (2).

 

First I was looking at Unicable LNBs, but it seems there is no way to make it work for 8 orbital positions.

I thought thought that's it, I'm done :-(

But then someone suggested Wideband LNBs.

I also saw the linked video in this thread: https://forums.openp...-possibilities/

and read through the whole thread.

 

At the moment it seems there are two possible solutions:

 

1) two sets consisting of

 

4x Inverto Pro Wideband 40mm LNB
2x Inverto Unicable II Multiswitch 5/32 IDLU-UWT110-CUO1O-32P
1x Inverto Unicable II IDLU-UCM1O1-OOO2O-OPP Combiner

 

each set connected to one input of the FBC tuner.

But the sets are really expensive (cca 400 Euro).

 

2) use the JULTEC JPS1701-16MN and 8 Wideband LNBs

 

I like this variant better, it's a little bit cheaper and looks less complicated and should be more flexible.

Can someone please confirm it'll work?

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Because it is a lot of money, I thought I'll do it in two phases.

1) replace only the twin LNBs for Wideband LNBs

2) replace the DiSEqC switches with the JULTEC JPS1701-16MN

 

 

The idea is, that with the Wideband LNBs there are not 4 quadrants, like with regular LNBs, but only 2 halves.

But is it possible to configure the Ultimo4k for the Wideband LNBs and DiSEqC switches?

Edited by HWTest, 30 November 2018 - 10:16.

[GThomas]

Its just a loose thought, as you've already seen in the other thread, I'm still learning myself..

But..

How about that idea of using unicable lnbs and "blocking" user bands?

8 lnbs @ ~50 euro each, 7 combiners at ~17 euro each, 1 programmer at ~140 euro.

Lnb1: only userbands 1,2,3,4 active,
Lnb2: only userbands 5,6,7,8 active,
...
Lnb8: only userbands 29,30,31,32 active.

Then its a matter of setting the fbc cluster correctly.

I, myself, didn't go this route, but that's because I needed to leave ability to expand system later (ie: add skyQ)

But maybe for you it would work?

[HWTest]

That looks very similar to my first idea

8 Unicable LNBs + 8-1 Unicable combiner.

Later I realized 8-1 combiner (AFAIK) doesn't exist and I was told cascading combiners is not a good idea and so on ...

 

I even had the idea to split the coaxial cable before the Ultimo4k and route a new coaxial cable to the next room, where I moved the Duo2 - not possible I was told (and the problem is not the new cable).

 

I have only two coaxial cables routed from the T90 to the Ultimo and no way I can add more. But I have LAN almost everywhere.

So the actual idea is to make the Ultimo4k as flexible as possible in receiving from all 8 orbital positions and stream to all the other devices (Duo2, Duo, Wetek Play, LibreELEC box).

[HWTest]

I think I will elaborate a little bit on my first planned step - the wideband LNBs (for the case Unicable LNBs are a no go).

The idea is to connect all H outputs to the first 8x1 DiSEqC switch and all V outputs to the second 8x1 DiSEqC switch, then connect the two coaxial output cables to the two inputs of the Ultimo4k FBC tuner inputs.

Make a custom satellites.xml, where there will be each orbital position twice - one entry with all H transponders and a second entry with all V transponders.

The question is, how to setup enigma2, that it knows that the connected LNBs are wideband? - I didn't find such an entry.

I could select user defined and set LOF/H and LOF/L to the same frequency 10410, but I'm afraid enigma2 wouldn't know, that it has the whole band available without switching.

In other words, I would need a setup, that Enigma knows, it has to send only the the command to switch to the correct input, no H/L H/V switching.

[Erik Slagter]

JESS LNB's, not Unicable, and you're good with 8 positions. The notorious problem with JESS LNB's is that they need to be "programmed" and programmer is expensive.

 

Another approach is buying either

- four Unicable switches, either combine the outputs (if possible) or use the four outputs independently and for that you'd need two (actual) FBC's tuners, not one.

- two JESS switches for four positions and either combine the outputs (if possible) or use the two outputs independently

- one JESS switch for eight positions and woooooooh, they're expensive!

[HWTest]

If I'm understanding you correctly, JESS means Jultec?

 

1) means I have to buy

8x Unicable LNBs

4x unicable switches

1x additional DVB-S2 FBC tuner in the Ultimo 4k

The problem (for me) is, I have only two coaxial cables from the T90 to the Ultimo4k and wiring additional two coaxial cables is a not an option.

 

2) looks like variant 1) in my first post?

 

3) looks like variant 2) in my first post?

 

Do I get it right or am I wrong?

[GThomas]

Just for clarity:

Unicable- up to 8 user bands
JESS (aka Unicable2) - up to 32 user bands, plus some extra commands (like switching satellites for example)

In my posts above I was referring to Unicable2/ JESS.

To be honest- I'm yet to see an "old" unicable lnb/switch.
But I wasn't looking for one either.
I'm sure they exist.

[Erik Slagter]

Unicable- up to 8 user bands
JESS (aka Unicable2) - up to 32 user bands, plus some extra commands (like switching satellites for example)

The amount of user bands is not the most interesting point here, it's the amount of positions. Unicable = max 2 positions while JESS = max 16.
 

To be honest- I'm yet to see an "old" unicable lnb/switch.
I'm sure they exist.

They're easy to come by and much cheaper than JESS switches.

[Erik Slagter]

If I'm understanding you correctly, JESS means Jultec?

 

1) means I have to buy

8x Unicable LNBs

4x unicable switches

1x additional DVB-S2 FBC tuner in the Ultimo 4k

The problem (for me) is, I have only two coaxial cables from the T90 to the Ultimo4k and wiring additional two coaxial cables is a not an option.

 

2) looks like variant 1) in my first post?

 

3) looks like variant 2) in my first post?

 

Do I get it right or am I wrong?

 

JESS is Jultec Enhanced Stacking System. It's a protocol. it's not only Jultec that sells devices using it.

 

1) No, the idea is to have 8 quattro LNB's, connect them to four Unicable switches and connect the outputs of these to four FBC inputs. You cannot "switch" SCR outputs (i.e. add an uncommitted switch between tuner and switch).

 

2) Nope. I am discussing a "regular" Unicable setup, this switch from Inverto is different. It can accept up to four wideband LNB's (or two quattro LNB's). And it's not Unicable but Unicable II, which is Inverto's way of saying it's a JESS switch. There is no such thing as Unicable II.

 

3) I am not sure this switch accepts widebands LNB's, you'll have to check it. The name suggests it have 16 inputs, which, for quattro LNB's, means 4 positions.

[HWTest]

On their web:

Beim JPS1701-16MN handelt es sich um einen Einkabelmultischalter für vier Satellitensysteme (im Breitbandmodus acht Sat-Systeme).

 

So it seems to be fine.

 

But what about my additional question about combining (in the first step) wideband LNBs with DiSEqC switches (post #4)?

[WanWizard]

As Erik already mentioned, you can not switch SCR's.

[WanWizard]

Just googled the price of that switch. Painful...

[Erik Slagter]

1) No, the idea is to have 8 quattro LNB's, connect them to four Unicable switches and connect the outputs of these to four FBC inputs. You cannot "switch" SCR outputs (i.e. add an uncommitted switch between tuner and switch).

[GThomas]

I think HWTest wants to put that (DISEqC)switch between LNBs and (JESS)switch....

a bit higher in the chain.

and then uninterrupted cable(s) from switch to tuner.

 

interesting. but how does one send commands to such a setup?

Edited by GThomas, 30 November 2018 - 19:42.

[WanWizard]

You can't, that is the point.

[GThomas]

It was a rhetorical question!!

[HWTest]

No, no.

 

I assume a wideband LNB is not a SCR LNB.

It's a LNB with two outputs, one for the horizontal polarization - the whole band, and the second again for the whole band but vertical polarization?

 

Now if take such a wideband LNB and connect one output  directly to one input of a FBC DVB-S2 tuner and the second output to the second input of the tuner, I have all quadrants covered (no switching of any kind involved)?

Or am I wrong?

 

And if I'm not wrong in this assumption, then I see no reason, why I couldn't switch eight wideband LNBs with a DISEqC switch, selecting only the right LNB, no switching of band or polarization involved.

I hope it's understandable, how I mean it?

[GThomas]

Now it is.

 

No Unicable or JESS involved at all.

 

Unfortunately I`m not yet all that familiar with FBC tuners yet (waiting for decoder grrr *#!#&!!)

 

So I, myself, cant answer that..

[WanWizard]

I assume a wideband LNB is not a SCR LNB.

 

A standard wideband isn't. It's similar to a normal LNB, with without the High/Low frequency split. But I haven't seen any non-unicable switch that allows you to combine the H en V outputs of the LNB into a single cable to the STB.

 

Technically you could probably use two wideband 4-1 switches to combine both the H and the V, and then connect those to two tuner inputs, but I don't know how you can tell Enigma that all H is on one tuner, and all V on another...

[HWTest]

Now we are getting close.

I don't want to combine H and V into one cable.

I want combine all eight H into one cable and all V into the second cable.

 

I can fool Enigma with a custom satellites.xml, in which I sort all V and all H separately, meaning instead of 8 orbital position I'll have virtually 16 (8V and 8H).

For instance with only 2 orbital positions (Astra 19 and Hotbird 13) I'll have Astra 19H, Atra19V, Hotbird 13H and Hotbird 13V and I assign:

Astra 19H and Hotbird 13H to input 1 (of the tuner) DISEqC switch 1 AB

Astra 19V and Hotbird 13V to input 2 (of the tuner) DISEqC switch 2 AB

 

The question is, how to tell enigma2 it's a wideband LNB, so no L/H switching needed?