43 replies to this topic

[WanWizard]

Then you need someone with knowledge about Enigma's internals, and that someone isn't me.

[Erik Slagter]

I think HWTest wants to put that (DISEqC)switch between LNBs and (JESS)switch....

a bit higher in the chain.

and then uninterrupted cable(s) from switch to tuner.

 

interesting. but how does one send commands to such a setup?

There are no SCR switches that can send DiSEqC commands. Even then it would be pointless because you'd need 2 or 4 uncommitted switches per LNB. Apart from that, it would not fit the SCR model where every user can have full access to all transponders, without interference of any other user.

[Erik Slagter]

In theory the above scheme could work, but:

 

- you can use only one position *)

- you'd be the only one using it this way, it would be a hard time getting someone to put the support in enigma

 

*) as they're wideband LNB's and not SCR, they will output the whole band -> cable is "full". You cannot "combine" two wideband LNB's. I know you're thinking of using an uncomitted switch, but that won't work, because they would need to be in both paths but controlled as one, enigma can't handle that. Also you'd still don't have 8 independent tuners, for that you really need SCR.

[HWTest]

- you'd be the only one using it this way, it would be a hard time getting someone to put the support in enigma

That is, what I was afraid of

 

ATM I think the variant with 8 wideband LNBs and the JPS1701-16MN is the way to go.

But as it is pretty expensive, that's why I wanted to divide it in two steps.

1) 8 wideband LNBs

2) JPS1701-16MN

 

The idea of step 1 was to reduce the variants from 32 quadrants to 16 halves (or how to call it properly?).

I don't think that I need, that both DISEqC switches act as one.

I'll try to explain it on my example with only Astra19 and Hotbird13.

I record something from Astra19H and watch something from Hotbird13V, nothing from Astra19V and Hotbird13H is available but all from Astra19H and Hotbird13V is.

With my current config, when I record something from Astra19HL and watch something from Hotbird13VH, nothing from Astra19HH, VL, VH and Hotbird13VL, HH, HL is available only all from Astra19HL and Hotbird13VH is.

So it is an upgrade (if doable )

Edited by HWTest, 1 December 2018 - 11:53.

[Erik Slagter]

In theory it would be possible, but enigma doesn't support it.

[HWTest]

That's what I was afraid of ...

[HWTest]

I've got another "great" idea how to fool E2 to use wideband LNBs

I could set the LOFH and LOFL to the same frequency (10410) and the threshold frequency out of the range (10700 – 12750) so E2 would never switch the H/L band because it would never cross the threshold.

Is there a check, that the threshold is out of range?

 

To sum the whole idea up in an example of one Wideband LNB to Astra 19 connected through two coaxial cables to both inputs of the FBC tuner cluster.

Set LOFH and LOFL to 10410 and threshold to 10699 or 12751.

Create a special satellites.xml with two Astra 19s and sorted channel by polarization:

Astra 19H input 1 connected with the H output of the LNB

Astra 19V input 2 connected with the V output of the LNB

So I have virtually two satellites and I'm fully covered.

 

Or am I missing something?

[WanWizard]

That might work.

[HWTest]

Great, I think I know, what I'll be doing, when it gets warmer  

[WanWizard]

Someone needs to try to be sure. And it remains a very ugly workaround...

[HWTest]

I volunteer  

(when the weather gets warmer)

 

Workaround - yes, ugly - sure, but it doubles the possibilities and it is definitely worth it (for me).

[Beaving1]

Not sure if this helps you in any way, but there is a Unicable Combiner from Inverto: https://www.satking....2-wege-combiner (Inverto Unicable II IDLU-UCM1O1-OOO2O-OPP 2-Wege Combiner). The LNB/switches need to be programmed and you can buy the programmer device there too or rent it.

[HWTest]

I know about this combiner, it's mentioned in the first post

 

But here are some updates.

I've contacted Jultec directly with some question about the JPS1701-16MN and here is some interesting info:

- it can feed up to 2 FBC clusters (16 tuners) through a single coaxial cable (I need a diode separated splitter for that)

- I can use the second coaxial cable for powering the switch, it's mandatory (the PSU is always delivered with it)

- I need 16 terminators for the inputs? (I have to ask why)

- I need an attenuation part for the output and another terminator, the output is too high for the inputs of the tuners

- I probably will need a programmer (JAP100), the default programming is for quad LNBs, needs to be reprogrammed for wideband

- because I receive some "exotic" (high bandwidth/high symbolrate) transponders, maybe it'll be necessary to reconfigure the userbands for more bandwidth

 

It'll be costly but ideal for my needs

[Erik Slagter]

1) that's called a "DC blocking splitter"

2) you don't need that, have one of the FBC tuners supply the power to the switch. Jultec switches are conceived to have the switch running off the power from the tuner and the LNB's are powered from the external power supply. I don't know why they do it that way, I'd say, power everything from the external power supply. BTW there are no great demands on the power supply, you can use a spare laptop power supply you have lying around just as well (I've been doing that for years now).

3) In theory, yes. All unused inputs and outputs need to be terminated, or you'll get interference from standing waves. You need DC blocking terminators for that. I can tell you what happens if you use regular terminators  . All inputs and outputs have 19Vdc on them...

4) I think that is proper nonsense?

6) that may be true, but normally the user band is already quite wide.

[HWTest]

I would post the original answers but they are in german and I don't know if it is not a violation of some "privacy protection" rules

 

2) on their web they state, that external power is mandatory for their "big" switches and the PSU is always part of the delivery (in other words, you cat not buy the switch without a PSU, it's already included in the price), so why not use it. And the second cable, which is already there, will not stay unused. The cable is about 15m long, I hope it is not too much.

3) I know that but there will be only 2 unused ports, one of the two power input ports and the CATV input port, which is the only one which I think should be terminated. They wrote "gleichspannungsentkoppelte Abschlusswiderstände" I think that means DC blocking terminators

4) I'm planning to research technical data of the FBC tuner input to verify and in the case of need I think a simple attenuator should do

5) They wrote "maybe", the problem demonstrates by lower signal quality, I will deal with it if I encounter it (and I don't think I will ...)

[Erik Slagter]

4) I would be "quite" surprised if you'd get any information, at all, about FBC tuners, that can't be found in public source files (e.g. from VU+). Broadcom is very secretive about it's hardware.

Edited by Erik Slagter, 15 December 2018 - 16:40.

[HWTest]

Plan B is a variable attenuator   

[Erik Slagter]

I would bet some money you won't need it. BTW this would need to be a DC passing system.

[HWTest]

You are right, but this info was there with an exclamation mark.

I quote: "Der direkte Ausgangspegel des JPS ist zu hoch für den Receiver!"

Translation: The direct outputlevel of the JPS is too high for the receiver!

It's odd, maybe they are (over)compensating the expected losses in cabling, splitters, ... etc.

[gorski]

Wiki:

"Equipment

Special LNBs have been developed for use in single cable distribution systems. All four sub-bands of the Ku band (low frequency/horizontal polarity, high frequency/horizontal polarity, low frequency/vertical polarity, high frequency/vertical polarity) are received by a conventional front end, amplified and downconverted to the L-band, to be fed to a number of SatCR (Satellite Channel Router) – one for each user that can be connected - to further downconvert the required section of the received spectrum to centre on the user band IF frequency. The LNB further includes a combiner (i.e. reverse splitter) to merge the user bands together and a microcontroller to receive the instructions as to which frequency is required by each user and control the SatCR chips."

Is that it?

Edited by gorski, 15 December 2018 - 22:00.