106 replies to this topic

[Huevos]

Afaik MIS/PLS streams are not intended for end-users, so end-user devices don't need to support it.

No, they are for retransmission by terrestrial based masts for use by end users (which is obvious from reading the NIT, see attached image above). So not directly, but if they were encrypted the encryption would need to be removed by the terrestrial transmitter before onward transmission so it is not visible to the end user.

 

If you look at French TV, logical channel number #4 is encrypted. Same on MIS, same on terrestrial. Same applies to the other services. If they are not encrypted on terrestrial, they are not encrypted on MIS.

Edited by Huevos, 14 May 2019 - 21:56.

[littlesat]

They can also encrypt the multiplexes... and decrypt it before they are relayed.

[Huevos]

They can also encrypt the multiplexes... and decrypt it before they are relayed.

Yes of course, but why pay an encryption license when the channels are FTA?

Edited by Huevos, 15 May 2019 - 08:56.

[Pr2]

Erik, what I am getting at is television sets. Some television sets support CI modules but most don't. No one is going to want to by an additional receiver to attach to their television set when there is a perfectly good tuner already built in. Adding encryption would render the internal tuner of millions of television sets as useless.

All the flat screen TV that I know have a CI slot module (some older are not CI+ compatible).

[Pr2]

 

They can also encrypt the multiplexes... and decrypt it before they are relayed.

Yes of course, but why pay an encryption license when the channels are FTA?

 

The channels are sent FTA on the terrestrial way but are normally encrypted on satellite.
If you look at French market there are 2 offers: TNTSAT on 19.2E (which lost its official accreditation) and FRANSAT on 5°W. Those are there for French people not covered by the terrestrial signal. Both are encrypted and people must purchase a decoder with card (TNTSAT) or a decoder with card or CI+ module with card (FRANSAT). You also have the BIS.tv offer on Hotbird 13.0E.

 

TV channels have to pay to broadcast movie, sport events, etc... for there local market only and they must scrambled the signal to respect there obligations towards the program owner once they are broadcasted by satellite.

On the same satellite you have the MIS channels which were not intended to be received by the majority of people and they are sent in the same way has the terrestrial does, so for France a mix a FTA and encrypted channels (Canal+, Paris Première, ...) some of those encrypted are sometimes broadcasting in FTA.

 

Even the terrestrial broadcasting is limited to avoid to cover the foreign countries.

 

So do you really think that if they were allowed to broadcast the channels FTA they will broadcast the same channels bouquet 4 times on 3 differents orbital position?

(19.E, 13.0E, 5.0W (standard DVB-S + MIS)) all covering the same globe area?

[Huevos]

What I am saying is on the ground the channels are FTA. And for the other 2 options you just need an STB that anyone can buy in Carrefour.

[Huevos]

I made a scanner to make some sort of order out of the MIS chaos.

 

 1.jpg   69.87KB   5 downloads

 

 2.jpg   145.44KB   4 downloads

 

 3.jpg   70.48KB   4 downloads

 

 4.jpg   136.32KB   4 downloads

 

 

[Pr2]

Where can we get your scanner?

[Huevos]

It is very basic. It just reads the LCNs from the SI tables and creates a bouquet file. Enigma does the service scan.

 

Source is available on oe-alliance-plugins. I put it there today so no feedback yet. Will be in the feeds of any image that builds that git.

[Erik Slagter]

Erik, what I am getting at is television sets. Some television sets support CI modules but most don't. No one is going to want to by an additional receiver to attach to their television set when there is a perfectly good tuner already built in. Adding encryption would render the internal tuner of millions of television sets as useless.

 

That would be common sense. But we all know the broadcasters (or actually, the content providers) don't care about common sense. See CI+ etc

 

BTW my TV set from 2007 already has a CI slot for DVB-T reception, so I guess it's quite common these days. I'd rather not, of course, because I'd rather have these channels remain in the open.

[Erik Slagter]

 

They can also encrypt the multiplexes... and decrypt it before they are relayed.

Yes of course, but why pay an encryption license when the channels are FTA?

 

That's, indeed, in the end, imho, the crux of the matter. They really would like to use encryption, but encryption costs money, quite a bit, so I've heard, so they now fallback to "poor men's" encryption using PLS.

 

Encryption makes sense though, because the feed can be received all over Europe, not just in France.

[Rob van der Does]

Where can we get your scanner?

See https://github.com/o...r/MisPlsLcnScan

[Huevos]

 

 

They can also encrypt the multiplexes... and decrypt it before they are relayed.

Yes of course, but why pay an encryption license when the channels are FTA?

 

That's, indeed, in the end, imho, the crux of the matter. They really would like to use encryption, but encryption costs money, quite a bit, so I've heard, so they now fallback to "poor men's" encryption using PLS.

 

Encryption makes sense though, because the feed can be received all over Europe, not just in France.

 

I think it is a case of they don't really care. If the programs do get viewed outside the restricted area there is no financial loss to the provider. So why pay for encryption. And if the program suppliers ask, the programs are distributed in a format that can't be viewed by the general public using typical STBs.

[littlesat]

Why a seperate scanner instead of (trying) to include it in the basic scanner?

[Huevos]

Why a seperate scanner instead of (trying) to include it in the basic scanner?

1) Because it is a plugin for sharing between all enigma teams without needing to modify their enigma code. IMO if part of a plugin is built into enigma code it is not a true plugin (e.g. fastscan, cablescan).

 

2) Because every provider is different. There is no standard way to store LCNs. And the tables of these 2 providers are severely broken. So no point trying to incorporate that into enigma.

Edited by Huevos, 18 May 2019 - 00:54.

[jpuigs]

It is very basic. It just reads the LCNs from the SI tables and creates a bouquet file. Enigma does the service scan.

 

Source is available on oe-alliance-plugins. I put it there today so no feedback yet. Will be in the feeds of any image that builds that git.

 

Thanks for the plugin.

I tried it, but it found nothing on French ones, and just a few tranponders on Italian ones (12543 H).

I noticed that on OpenPli satellites.xml file there is no PLS codes, just IS , that's why it just finds that tranponder that doesn't use PLS.

<transponder frequency="11509000" symbol_rate="29500000" polarization="0" fec_inner="6" system="1" modulation="2" is_id="1" />  MISSING PLS CODE
<transponder frequency="11509000" symbol_rate="29500000" polarization="0" fec_inner="6" system="1" modulation="2" is_id="4" />  MISSING PLS CODE
<transponder frequency="11509000" symbol_rate="29500000" polarization="0" fec_inner="6" system="1" modulation="2" is_id="6" />  MISSING PLS CODE
……

I inserted them, and now it works.

 

I've found 2 small problems:

-Text is too small, instead of font 18 I'd use at least 36.

-If I scan any provider, and I set "clear before scan", it deletes the other one.

[littlesat]

Are these values be available on lyngsat.... when nope than I would consider to contact them...

[jpuigs]

They are not available on main satellite page.

You have to see a transponder specific page to see them, f.i. 12648 V.

 

oe-alliance-tuxbox-common have them, so either anyone inserts them manually, or they get from another source.

<transponder frequency="11509000" symbol_rate="29500000" polarization="0" fec_inner="6" system="1" modulation="2" is_id="1" pls_mode="1" pls_code="50416" />
<transponder frequency="11509000" symbol_rate="29500000" polarization="0" fec_inner="6" system="1" modulation="2" is_id="4" pls_mode="1" pls_code="50416" />
<transponder frequency="11509000" symbol_rate="29500000" polarization="0" fec_inner="6" system="1" modulation="2" is_id="6" pls_mode="1" pls_code="50416" />

[littlesat]

Please notify lyngsat... it should be solved at the source not work-a-round it...

[Huevos]

Are these values be available on lyngsat.... when nope than I would consider to contact them...

This is a known issue. The PLS codes have been removed from Lyngsat. This affects 40 transponders. Without these codes PLS scans do not work. In OE-A parser a manual override has been added to insert know PLS codes.

 

I notified Lyngsat several days ago. Let's hope they were removed accidentally, but to me it doesn't look like it.

Edited by Huevos, 18 May 2019 - 12:59.