56 replies to this topic

[OpenNews]

Hi!

 

I am sure this is covered several times before, still it is not clear to me.

 

1. Scaler /sharpness (audio and video settings)

 

Setting the scaler to 0 results in a blurry image even if native resolution is set (576i - 576i, 720p - 720p, 1080i - 1080i).

 

What does this feature do and what is the standard/best value.

 

2. Resolution

 

Is it better to use the AR plugin and set the resolution to match the native signal or is it better to set the output to TV max (1080p)

 

576i - 576i or 576i -1080p

720p - 720p or 720p - 1080p

1080i - 1080i or 1080i - 1080p

 

3. AR deinterlace/interlace

 

If the AR plugin is used, how should the deinterlace and interlace settings be set, on/off, auto, best

 

 

[kalehrl]

Scaler sharpness only applies to SD content.

By default, the slider is in the middle.

I think 6 or 7.

When watching HD content, it has no effect.

Regarding auto resolution plugin, just go to AV settings and set the highest resolution your TV supports and choose multi in the refresh rate field.

Then go to auto resolution plugin and enable it, set mode to auto frame rate and no need to change other modes.

[WanWizard]

Not entirely true.

 

You need a scaler if the resolution of the material doesn't match the resolution of the output.

 

If you use a fixed output in the AV settings (for example 1080p), the scaler in the box will do the conversion of the source material (up or down!) to match that 1080p. If you use the auto resolution plugin, you can make the output setting match that of the material, in which case you will use the scaler in either the TV or in your AV amplifier to do the conversion to either the native format of the TV, or the output setting of the AV amplifier.

 

So the only time a scaler is not used, is when you use to AR plugin (correctly), and the resolution of the material matches the native resolution of the TV. Or when the material matches both the fixed output setting and the native setting of the TV. So if you have a 4K TV, in general a scaler is always used, unless you're material is 4K, and the output of the box is 4K.

 

Whether or not to use the AR plugin depends on a few factors. The quality of the scalers in all the devices in the chain, and the time needed for those devices to adapt. For example, my plasma TV takes 2-3 seconds to switch resolution. That is a nightmare when zapping.

 

For most boxes and most consumer TV's, the scaler easily matches that in the TV used, so using the AR plugin is pointless. Only if you have a separate high-end scaler it might be worth while to look at it.

[OpenNews]

Thank you! 

 

It's a bit confusing. If I set the AR plugin like this: Incoming signal 720p - signal sent to the TV 720p, the scaler is still used. For me the scaler is always needed?

 

Deinterlacer mode for interlaced content and Deinterlacer mode for progressive content how should these be set?

[WanWizard]

If the source material isn't 720p, the box will use the scaler to convert it to 720p on output. If your TV panel doesn't have a 720 native resolution, the TV will use it's scaler too to convert the input resolution to the display resolution.

 

So this scenario is very bad in regards to scaler usage, as you'll use both. So in general you configure it so that either the scaler in the box is always used, or the scaler in the TV (or amplifier).

 

The deinterlacer is yet another discussion, because for that the same applies.

 

In general, my advise would be to set the box to a fixed progressive output, identical to the native resolution of your TV (i.e. 1080p or 2160p), and have the box deal with the rest. Unless you have a very high-end TV, amplifier, or external scaler (and probably eagle eyes ). Or a box with a very bad scaler...

[kalehrl]

so using the AR plugin is pointless.

 

Not really if you watch American TV where the frame rate is 30 or 60 or use the box as a media player to watch movies with a frame rate of 24.

[OpenNews]

Okay, but  when the source material is 720p/50 and the output from the box is 720p/50, the box scaler is still having impact on the image (if set to 0 the picture is blurry). I am 100% the source and output matches. The same applies for 576i and 1080i signals.

 

It is a Panasonic TV and Xtrend ET8000 box.

[WanWizard]

Not really if you watch American TV where the frame rate is 30 or 60 or use the box as a media player to watch movies with a frame rate of 24.

 

Don't quote out of context. Obviously if you use formats your TV doesn't support, you need to convert somewhere.
 

[WanWizard]

Okay, but  when the source material is 720p/50 and the output from the box is 720p/50, the box scaler is still having impact on the image (if set to 0 the picture is blurry). I am 100% the source and output matches. The same applies for 576i and 1080i signals..

 

The fact the scaler doesn't have to scale doesn't mean the data doesn't flow through the SoC on its way from input to output.

 

There are, depending on the SoC in use, all sorts of settings available that for some reason or other are not exposed in the GUI. My Duo 4K for example has:

-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_analog_noise_reduction
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_apply
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_auto_flesh
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_block_noise_reduction
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_blue_boost
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_brightness
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_contrast
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_digital_contour_removal
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_dynamic_contrast
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_green_boost
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_hue
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_mosquito_noise_reduction
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_saturation
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_scaler_sharpness
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_scaler_vertical_dejagging
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_sharpness
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 pep_split
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 sharpness_control
-r--r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 sharpness_control_choices
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 sharpness_value
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Feb 28 21:09 smooth

[WanWizard]

The internals of a SoC (in this case the old BCM7405):

 Screenshot from 2021-02-28 21-32-08.png   113.17KB   10 downloads

 

As you can see, there is all sorts of audio and video processing happening between in- and output.

[OpenNews]

Thank You! 

 

Are there any differences (significant improvements) in image quality between new Enigma2 receivers and old when comparing 1080 and 720 broadcasts.

[rantanplan]

That's a very tricky question.
In general, I would answer them with 'no'.

The question of how good the display is depends on the use of the possibilities.
The main reason why the old mipsel often have / had a clear disadvantage in terms of display was the driver.
The Xtrend were always exemplary, but also the exception.
sh4 always had a better representation here.
Even today you can still see differences in current poor processors. However, less so in the high frame rates. Rather in dealing with poorer input material. So SD and below.
Here, too, it is the drivers.
Usually the ARM and Hisi processors have a good image quality.

greetings

[korsan]

A remark about Hisi processors.
I have both the H9.2H and H9.S.
Both boxes are giving the wrong video source, mix up interlaced/progressive for some sat channels and mediafiles.
Some channels (BBC1) that originally are 1080i25  shows as source 1080p25 SDR.
And 720p60 progressive mediafiles shows as source 720i60 SDR.
This has nothing to do with Autoresolution.
Is this a known problem for Hisi processors?

With other Broadcom boxes like Zgemma H2H and HD1265 are all okay.

Edited by korsan, 16 April 2021 - 19:31.

[Huevos]

Most likely /proc/stb/vmpeg/0/progressive is missing or giving rogue output.

[Trial]

Hi,

as Huevos wrote check progressive but also with the PC tool mediainfo or the codec information from VLC.

 

There are 2 different formats for 1080i50. One is real interlaced which means that all 50 frames differ a little bit. The 2nd one is that 1080p25 is transmitted in a way that 1 progressve full frame is transmitted in 2 frames with odd and even lines.

 

Ralf

[littlesat]

Two different formats for 1080i50... the OTHER which is rarely used is 1080p25 which is a different format....

[korsan]

Yes I didn't know the 2nd one!
Now I have checked these in mpc-hc mediainfo and saw the differences.

Channels which are shown as 1080p25 SDR in H9 have these options in mediainfo:
(BBC1, Vox-RTL @19E, DR1, CT24 @23.5E, RAI1, TRT @42E, TVR1-2 @16E, )
Scan type: MBAFF
Scan type, store method: Interleaved fields

as Trial wrote, the real interlaced channels, shown as 1080i25 SDR in H9:
Scan type: Interlaced
Scan type, store method: Separated fields

 

[mrvica]

with the PC tool mediainfo or the codec information from VLC.

 

or straight on the Box with the script, it needs ffprobe (idea by @athoik)

#!/bin/sh

# ffprobe_info.sh
serviceref=`/usr/bin/wget -O - -q http://localhost/web/getcurrent | /bin/grep -B 1 "\(<\|</\)e2servicename" | /bin/sed 's/<[^>]*>//g' | /bin/sed 's/^[ \t]*//' | /bin/sed '2d'`
ffprobe -v quiet -print_format json -show_format -show_streams http://localhost:17999/$serviceref

[Dimitrij]

For information...

If you need new functions in the AR plugin, please contact.

Edited by Dimitrij, 17 April 2021 - 15:54.

[korsan]

720p60 progressive mediafiles shows as source 720i60 SDR.

I see that in Openpli 8.0 the H9 Hisi boxes are using ffmpeg.
For testing, in serviceapp I have switched to exteplayer3, and now progressive (p60, p24) mediafiles are showing the correct source info in PliExtraInfo/Infobar.
But this is only related to h264/avc mediafiles, because ffmpeg shows h265/hevc files source info correctly.