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EPGImport generates crashes


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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #41 WanWizard

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Excellent

Posted 29 November 2022 - 15:07

This is a connection lost with the server during download.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Pro (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

Due to my bad health, I will not be very active at times and may be slow to respond. I will not read the forum or PM on a regular basis.

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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #42 doglover

  • Rytec EPG Team
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Posted 29 November 2022 - 15:14

No problem here.

But I do not have much Bulgarian channels.

[EPGImport] autostart (0) occured at 1669731088.59
[EPGImport] autostart (0) occured at 1669731088.62
[EPGImport] WakeUpTime now set to 1669790597 (now=1669731088)
[EPGImport] Selected source:  ['Bulgaria']
sourcesDone():  False None
[EPGImport] nextImport, source= Bulgaria
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://epgspot.com/rytec_epg/rytecBG.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] checkValidServer serverurl http://epgspot.com/rytec_epg/rytecBG.xz
[EPGImport] afterDownload /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] unlink /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytec.channels.xml.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] checkValidServer serverurl http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytec.channels.xml.xz
[EPGImport] afterChannelDownload /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] Using twisted thread
[EPGImport] Parsing channels from '/etc/epgimport/custom.channels.xml'
[EPGImport] Parsing channels from 'rytec.channels.xml.xz'
[EPGImport] INFO: no channel_id_filter.conf file found.
[EPGImport] Parsing channels from 'rytec.channels.xml.xz'
[EPGImport] INFO: no channel_id_filter.conf file found.
[XMLTVConverter] Enumerating event information
Unknown channel:  moviestar.bg
Unknown channel:  idxtra.bg
Unknown channel:  docubox.bg
Unknown channel:  tlc.bg
Unknown channel:  amc.bg
Unknown channel:  jimjam.bg
Unknown channel:  foodnetwork.bg
Unknown channel:  crimeinvestigation.bg
Unknown channel:  boomerang.bg
Unknown channel:  folklortv.bg
Unknown channel:  fantv.bg
Unknown channel:  kanal3.bg
Unknown channel:  evrokom.bg
Unknown channel:  tv1bulgaria.bg
Unknown channel:  thevoice.bg
Unknown channel:  disneyjunior.bg
Unknown channel:  comedycentral.bg
Unknown channel:  maxsport4.bg
Unknown channel:  epicdrama.bg
Unknown channel:  bloombergtvbg.bg
Unknown channel:  diemasport2.bg
Unknown channel:  id.bg
Unknown channel:  diemasport.bg
Unknown channel:  diemasport3.bg
Unknown channel:  nickjr.bg
Unknown channel:  nick.bg
Unknown channel:  alfatv.bg
Unknown channel:  ekids.bg
Unknown channel:  travel.bg
Unknown channel:  balkanika.bg
Unknown channel:  englishclubtv.bg
Unknown channel:  eurochannel.fr
Unknown channel:  antena3.bg
Unknown channel:  citytv.bg
Unknown channel:  vivacomarena.bg
Unknown channel:  viasatnature.bg
Unknown channel:  viasathistory.bg
Unknown channel:  viasatexplorer.bg
Unknown channel:  ringbg.bg
Unknown channel:  planeta.bg
Unknown channel:  novasport.bg
Unknown channel:  nicktoons.bg
Unknown channel:  ngc.bg
Unknown channel:  ngwild.bg
Unknown channel:  maxsport3.bg
Unknown channel:  maxsport2.bg
Unknown channel:  maxsport1.bg
Unknown channel:  historyhd.bg
Unknown channel:  historychannel.bg
Unknown channel:  eurosport2.bg
Unknown channel:  eurosporthd.bg
Unknown channel:  eurosport.bg
Unknown channel:  evrokomnctv.bg
Unknown channel:  disney.bg
Unknown channel:  discoveryscience.bg
Unknown channel:  discoverychannel.bg
Unknown channel:  diemafamily.bg
Unknown channel:  diema.bg
Unknown channel:  davincilearning.bg
Unknown channel:  cbsreality.bg
Unknown channel:  cn.bg
Unknown channel:  bulgariaonair.bg
Unknown channel:  axnwhite.bg
Unknown channel:  axnblack.bg
Unknown channel:  axn.bg
Unknown channel:  animalplanet.bg
Unknown channel:  7/8 tv
Unknown channel:  24kitchen.bg
Unknown channel:  diemafamily+1.bg
Unknown channel:  diemafamily+2.bg
Unknown channel:  diemafamily+3.bg
Unknown channel:  diemafamily+4.bg
Unknown channel:  ringbg+1.bg
Unknown channel:  ringbg+2.bg
Unknown channel:  ringbg+3.bg
Unknown channel:  ringbg+4.bg
Unknown channel:  viasattv1000balkan.bg
Unknown channel:  planetafolk.bg
Unknown channel:  planetahd.bg
Unknown channel:  planetatv.bg
Unknown channel:  novanews.bg
Unknown channel:  kinonova.bg
Unknown channel:  nova.bg
Unknown channel:  fixfoxi.de
Unknown channel:  foxlife.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime.bg
Unknown channel:  fox.bg
Unknown channel:  filmboxarthouse.ww
Unknown channel:  filmboxarthouse.bg
Unknown channel:  h2.bg
Unknown channel:  boxhits.uk
Unknown channel:  bntworld.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt4.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt3.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt2.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1.bg
Unknown channel:  filmbox+.bg
Unknown channel:  filmboxextra.bg
Unknown channel:  filmbox.bg
Unknown channel:  hbo2.bg
Unknown channel:  hbo3.bg
Unknown channel:  hbo.bg
Unknown channel:  cinemax2.bg
Unknown channel:  cinemax.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady.bg
Unknown channel:  btvcomedy.bg
Unknown channel:  btvcinema.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction.bg
Unknown channel:  btv.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+4.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+3.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+2.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+1.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+4.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+3.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+2.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+1.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+4.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+3.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+2.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+1.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+4.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+3.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+2.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+1.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+4.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+3.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+2.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+1.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+4.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+3.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+2.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+1.bg
[EPGImport] ### thread is ready ### Events: 353
[EPGImport] imported 353 events
[EPGImport] Save last import date and count event
[EPGImport] #### Finished ####

 


 


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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #43 03397

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Posted 29 November 2022 - 18:09

@WanWizard

I do not have any problem with the connection. My other receiver finishes importing without any  issue.

 

@Doglover

Can I use any sources file or I need to have the file for my receiver?

Where can I find the newest one?



Re: EPGImport generates crashes #44 WanWizard

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Posted 29 November 2022 - 18:55

There is an issue with the specific download mirror box randomly selected:
 

[EPGImport] nextImport, source= Bulgariya (xz)
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://91.121.106.17...data/rytecBG.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz

 

That link hangs here too (as in: it connects, but no or very little data is being received).


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Pro (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

Due to my bad health, I will not be very active at times and may be slow to respond. I will not read the forum or PM on a regular basis.

Many answers to your question can be found in our new and improved wiki.


Re: EPGImport generates crashes #45 doglover

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Posted 29 November 2022 - 23:01

@WanWizard

I do not have any problem with the connection. My other receiver finishes importing without any  issue.

 

@Doglover

Can I use any sources file or I need to have the file for my receiver?

Where can I find the newest one?

There is no difference in the source files for the receivers.  They all use the same file.


~~Rytec Team~~
Maxytec Multibox SE OpenPli (used as mediaplayer)
Mutant HD2400 OpenPli
Vu+ Duo OpenPli (backup)

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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #46 doglover

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Posted 29 November 2022 - 23:02

There is an issue with the specific download mirror box randomly selected:
 

[EPGImport] nextImport, source= Bulgariya (xz)
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://91.121.106.17...data/rytecBG.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz

 

That link hangs here too (as in: it connects, but no or very little data is being received).

The latest change in EPGimport should circumvent this.  If the download does not finish in 30 sec, the download will be aborted.


~~Rytec Team~~
Maxytec Multibox SE OpenPli (used as mediaplayer)
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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #47 doglover

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Posted 29 November 2022 - 23:08

Wait a moment.

http://91.121.106.17...data/rytecBG.xz  is from an old source.  (dating back from 2017)

The sources have been changed for some time now.

 

The source for Bulgaria is:

    <sourcecat sourcecatname="Rytec Bulgaria XMLTV">
        <source type="gen_xmltv" channels="rytec.channels.xml.xz">
            <description>Bulgaria</description>
            <url>http://www.xmltvepg.nl/rytecBG.xz</url>
            <url>http://epgspot.com/rytec_epg/rytecBG.xz</url>
            <url>http://rytecepg.wanwizard.eu/rytecBG.xz</url>
            <url>http://rytecepg.dyndns.tv/epg_data/rytecBG.xz</url>
            <url>http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytecBG.xz</url>
        </source>
    </sourcecat>

So.  pls update your sources from the feed.

But if it keeps giving you this old source, replace rytec.sources.xml in /etc/epgimport/ with this file:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/doglover3920/EPGimport-Sources/main/rytec.sources.xml

Edited by doglover, 29 November 2022 - 23:15.

~~Rytec Team~~
Maxytec Multibox SE OpenPli (used as mediaplayer)
Mutant HD2400 OpenPli
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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #48 ecolek

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Posted 14 January 2023 - 09:57

Hello,

 

refreshing this old thread because again running empgimport generates crashes, it misbehaves in similar way like earlier discussed here.

 

I use VTi 15.0.02, with pligin version enigma2-plugin-extensions-epgimport - 1.0-r41-20171106

and getting EPG for French, Belgian and Polish channels.

 

Part of my crashlog:

 

[..]

[EPGImport] nextImport, source= Miscellaneous XMLTV (xz)                                                                                                                 
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://rytecepg.wanw...eu/rytecMisc.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz                                                                       
[EPGImport] connectionLost [Failure instance: Traceback (failure with no frames): <class 'twisted.internet.error.ConnectionFdescWentAway'>: Uh: Filedescriptor went away. 
]                                                                                                                                                                         
[EPGImport] afterDownload /tmp/epgimport.xz                                                                                                                               
[EPGImport] unlink /tmp/epgimport.xz                                                                                                                                      
[EPGImport] afterChannelDownload None                                                                                                                                     
[XMLTVConverter] Enumerating event information                                                                                                                            
Unknown channel:  ViasatNature.eu                                                                                                                                         
Unknown channel:  ViasatExplore.eu                                                                                                                                        
Unknown channel:  MCMtop.fr                                                                                                                                               
Unknown channel:  Museum4K.eu                                                                                                                                             
no ancillary data in audio stream... abort radiotext pes parser                                                                                                           
[XMLTVConverter] Bad start/stop time: 20230116233000 +0100 (1673908200) - 20230116233000 +0100 (1673908200) [Daniah Greenberg: The Tree of Life Bible]                    
abs position 0 0 -> 0 0                                                                                                                                                   
m_fb_size width : 1920, height : 1080                                                                                                                                     
Unknown channel:  SBNG.global                                                                                                                                             
Unknown channel:  TraceToca.eu                                                                                                                                            
Unknown channel:  StingrayBrava.en                                                                                                                                        
Unknown channel:  2MMaroc.ma                                                                                                                                              
[XMLTVConverter] Bad start/stop time: 20230115224000 +0000 (1673822400) - 20230108230500 +0000 (1673219100) [World's Weirdest Animals]                                    
[XMLTVConverter] Bad start/stop time: 20230115223500 +0000 (1673822100) - 20230108230000 +0000 (1673218800) [Barbapapa - One Big Happy Family!]                           
Unknown channel:  ClubbingTV.eu                                                                                                                                           
Unknown channel:  LoveNature                                                                                                                                              
Unknown channel:  GM24.eu                                                                                                                                                 
Unknown channel:  LoveNature4k                                                                                                                                            
Unknown channel:  MTVMusic.eu                                                                                                                                             
abs position 1233 120 -> 624 351                                                                                                                                          
m_fb_size width : 1920, height : 1080                                                                                                                                     
abs position 0 0 -> 0 0                                                                                                                                                   
m_fb_size width : 1920, height : 1080                                                                                                                                     
record: 0                                                                                                                                                                 
- dvbapp2_crash_2023-01-14_09-43-59_1673685839.log 551/1553 35%
[...]

 

Do you want me to supply any logs/configs to investigae it further?

 

Thanks in advance

EC


Edited by ecolek, 14 January 2023 - 10:06.


Re: EPGImport generates crashes #49 doglover

  • Rytec EPG Team
  • 16,974 posts

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Posted 14 January 2023 - 10:47

This Bad/Stop time error is this:

  <programme start="20230116233000 +0100" stop="20230116233000 +0100" channel="TBNEurope.eu">
    <title lang="en">Daniah Greenberg: The Tree of Life Bible</title>
    <sub-title lang="en">Regulars</sub-title>
    <desc lang="en">Daniah Greenberg is founder of the Tree of Life Bible Society and publisher of the Tree of Life Version (TLV) of the Bible.</desc>
  </programme>

Program length is 0 minutes.

Will look into it.

But this will not cause a crash of your receiver.

It come from the website:

 

Attached File  TBNEurope.PNG   25.81KB   1 downloads

 

Second one:

  <programme start="20230115224000 +0000" stop="20230108230500 +0000" channel="NGCWild.eu">
    <title lang="mt">World's Weirdest Animals</title>
    <sub-title lang="mt">[Lifestyle] Freaky Families (S1) (2013) [12+]</sub-title>
    <desc lang="mt">A collection of strange creatures including toads that explode, koalas with a disgusting diet, and baby birds that defend themselves by vomiting.</desc>
  </programme>
  <programme start="20230115224000 +0000" stop="20230115233000 +0000" channel="NGCWild.eu">
    <title lang="mt">World's Weirdest Animals</title>
    <sub-title lang="mt">[Lifestyle] Freaky Families (S1) (2013) [12+]</sub-title>
    <desc lang="mt">A collection of strange creatures including toads that explode, koalas with a disgusting diet, and baby birds that defend themselves by vomiting.</desc>
  </programme>

A duplicate shows with a different end time.

Again this should not cause a crash.  (But it is still an error)


Edited by doglover, 14 January 2023 - 10:55.

~~Rytec Team~~
Maxytec Multibox SE OpenPli (used as mediaplayer)
Mutant HD2400 OpenPli
Vu+ Duo OpenPli (backup)

Synology NAS

Sat: 13E, 19.2E, 23.5E and 28.2E
*Pli/Rytec EPG POWERED*


Re: EPGImport generates crashes #50 doglover

  • Rytec EPG Team
  • 16,974 posts

+635
Excellent

Posted 14 January 2023 - 11:28

Tried on one of my receivers:  (OpenPLi)

[EPGImport] autostart (0) occured at 1673674272.54
[EPGImport] autostart (0) occured at 1673674272.55
[EPGImport] WakeUpTime now set to -1 (now=1673674272)
[EPGImport] Selected source:  ['Miscellaneous XMLTV (xz)']
sourcesDone():  False None
[EPGImport] nextImport, source= Miscellaneous XMLTV (xz)
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytecMisc.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] checkValidServer serverurl http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytecMisc.xz
[EPGImport] afterDownload /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] unlink /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] Downloading: http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytec.channels.xml.xz to local path: /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] checkValidServer serverurl http://epg.vuplus-community.net/rytec.channels.xml.xz
[EPGImport] afterChannelDownload /tmp/epgimport.xz
[EPGImport] Using twisted thread
[EPGImport] Parsing channels from '/etc/epgimport/custom.channels.xml'
[EPGImport] Parsing channels from 'rytec.channels.xml.xz'
[EPGImport] INFO: no channel_id_filter.conf file found.
[EPGImport] Parsing channels from 'rytec.channels.xml.xz'
[EPGImport] INFO: no channel_id_filter.conf file found.
[XMLTVConverter] Enumerating event information
Unknown channel:  viasatnature.eu
Unknown channel:  viasatexplore.eu
Unknown channel:  mtv90s.eu
Unknown channel:  clubmtv.eu
Unknown channel:  fastfunbox.hr
Unknown channel:  fashionbox.cz
Unknown channel:  360tunebox.cz
Unknown channel:  traceurban.eu
Unknown channel:  bbcearth.nordic
Unknown channel:  mcmtop.fr
Unknown channel:  museum4k.eu
Unknown channel:  fuel.tv.eu
Unknown channel:  sbng.global
Unknown channel:  tracetoca.eu
Unknown channel:  mediasetitalia.int
Unknown channel:  stingraybrava.en
Unknown channel:  2mmaroc.ma
Unknown channel:  myzen.tv
Unknown channel:  ukraina24.ua
Unknown channel:  gametoon.eu
Unknown channel:  historyeurope.eu
Unknown channel:  luxetv.eu
Unknown channel:  clubbingtv.eu
Unknown channel:  lovenature
Unknown channel:  mtv00s.eu
Unknown channel:  gm24.eu
Unknown channel:  lovenature4k
Unknown channel:  nickmusic.eu
Unknown channel:  mtvmusic.eu
Unknown channel:  no_epg_music
Unknown channel:  no_epg_cinema
Unknown channel:  no_epg_fashion
Unknown channel:  dubaione.ae
Unknown channel:  acm.me
Unknown channel:  alaraby2.ma
Unknown channel:  wness.tv
Unknown channel:  viasattv1000balkan.bg
Unknown channel:  planetafolk.bg
Unknown channel:  planetahd.bg
Unknown channel:  planetatv.bg
Unknown channel:  novanews.bg
Unknown channel:  kinonova.bg
Unknown channel:  nova.bg
Unknown channel:  fixfoxi.de
Unknown channel:  foxlife.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime.bg
Unknown channel:  fox.bg
Unknown channel:  filmboxarthouse.ww
Unknown channel:  filmboxarthouse.bg
Unknown channel:  h2.bg
Unknown channel:  boxhits.uk
Unknown channel:  bntworld.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt4.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt3.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt2.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1.bg
Unknown channel:  filmboxextra.bg
Unknown channel:  filmbox.bg
Unknown channel:  hbo2.bg
Unknown channel:  hbo3.bg
Unknown channel:  hbo.bg
Unknown channel:  cinemax2.bg
Unknown channel:  cinemax.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady.bg
Unknown channel:  btvcomedy.bg
Unknown channel:  btvcinema.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction.bg
Unknown channel:  btv.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+4.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+3.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+2.bg
Unknown channel:  btvlady+1.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+4.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+3.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+2.bg
Unknown channel:  btvaction+1.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+4.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+3.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+2.bg
Unknown channel:  btv+1.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+4.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+3.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+2.bg
Unknown channel:  nova+1.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+4.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+3.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+2.bg
Unknown channel:  foxcrime+1.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+4.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+3.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+2.bg
Unknown channel:  bnt1+1.bg
[EPGImport] ### thread is ready ### Events: 11018
[EPGImport] imported 11018 events
[EPGImport] Save last import date and count event
[EPGImport] #### Finished ####

 


 


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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #51 Pr2

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Excellent

Posted 14 January 2023 - 13:59

2017 version probably doesn't support .xz compression format. You need to update your version.

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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #52 ecolek

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Posted 16 January 2023 - 12:59

.xz compression seems to be  properlysupported by this plugin version.
 
I have set "Load EPG only services in bouquets" and crashes haven't happened for last 2 days, I'll observe it further.


Re: EPGImport generates crashes #53 doglover

  • Rytec EPG Team
  • 16,974 posts

+635
Excellent

Posted 16 January 2023 - 13:33

 

.xz compression seems to be  properlysupported by this plugin version.
 
I have set "Load EPG only services in bouquets" and crashes haven't happened for last 2 days, I'll observe it further.

 

Could it be that you import too much EPG?

On which receiver are you using this? 

f.i. on my old VU duo I have to be careful how much I EPG import.  Too much and crashes occur.

This is caused because of the memory runs out.

 

Escpecially the Polish, German and UK EPG are large files.

Combined with the IPTV file - a collection of odd channels, it could be too much.


Edited by doglover, 16 January 2023 - 13:36.

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Maxytec Multibox SE OpenPli (used as mediaplayer)
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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #54 ecolek

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Posted 16 January 2023 - 13:41

I use VU+ Duo 4K

 

No IPTV, only sat channels.

 

Currently epg.dat file has 14MB.



Re: EPGImport generates crashes #55 doglover

  • Rytec EPG Team
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+635
Excellent

Posted 16 January 2023 - 14:15

I use VU+ Duo 4K

 

No IPTV, only sat channels.

 

Currently epg.dat file has 14MB.

That should not be the problem then.  Plenty of memory in a VU+ Duo 4K.

And 14MB is not excessive.  (on my HD2400 it is 31 MB).


~~Rytec Team~~
Maxytec Multibox SE OpenPli (used as mediaplayer)
Mutant HD2400 OpenPli
Vu+ Duo OpenPli (backup)

Synology NAS

Sat: 13E, 19.2E, 23.5E and 28.2E
*Pli/Rytec EPG POWERED*


Re: EPGImport generates crashes #56 Abu Baniaz

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+61
Good

Posted 16 January 2023 - 16:14

There have been crashes reported on other forums using OE-A version. I'm not sure if it is same crash. The fix was this
https://github.com/o...-Import/pull/80

Re: EPGImport generates crashes #57 WanWizard

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Excellent

Posted 16 January 2023 - 16:19

That is an py3 conversion issue, the infamous bytes vs str. I doubt VTI is using py3.


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Re: EPGImport generates crashes #58 ecolek

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0
Neutral

Posted 16 January 2023 - 18:38

Nope, I have python 2.7.9 on my VTI image.

However, I do suspect exactly same thing like we discussed in this chain back in 2021, ie. overflow caused by a certain variable (too long EPG entries that had to be trimmed?)




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