19 replies to this topic

[satopenpli]

Looking for a STB running OpenPLI with a mainline kernel, does such a beast exist?

 

No vendor board-support-package junk with ancient kernels and million of patches slapped on, but 100% linux mainline supported box.

 

Or am I dreaming?

 

 

[dolphs]

perhaps edision comes close to what you are after: click

[Trial]

and it is the LTS branch.

[mimisiku]

You’re dreaming… STB’s only contain the bare necessaties to produce picture and sound (even if it is equiped with a mainstream kernel). The SoC only supports the licensed codecs and can’t be updated. What you want is a fully fledged PC running under Linux with a TV viewing card….

[satopenpli]

perhaps edision comes close to what you are after..

Not as bad as others, but still... kernel last updated 8 months ago.
And DVB drivers aren't mainlined, developers are most likely cutting costs of going through review and upstreaming their code.

 

My old Vu+ boxes are slowly dying, and I don't want to repeat mistakes of buying hardware destined to rot on a single kernel version forever.

[WanWizard]

You can forget that.

 

All vendors have the "out of sight, out of mind" approach, you get the kernel version that is supplied with the SoC vendors SDK, and that's it.

 

Updating kernel versions is a cost without a single benefit, especially since virtually none of the manufacturers have development resources, most have an external person / team / company make the BSP and the drivers on a per-hour fee.

 

In the past we were able to push to get bugs fixed, but even that is very difficult these days. On top of that, Broadcom doesn't supply OEM SoC's anymore, and the others (HiSilicon, AmLogic) don't have high-end SoC's, a big problem for the likes of VU+ and Gigablue.

[satopenpli]

Sad, SAT STB's are out then.

 

I'd rather go with something mainlined like RPi4 or NUC's as a frontend then, at least you'll always get latest kernel and compliant graphics/video decoding/audio software stack.

 

As for SAT part, guess I can tolerate "out of sight, out of mind" approach for something like SAT>IP single purpose box sitting in a closet, as long as it is stable. Any recomendations on one?

 

Modern USB DVB-S2X tuner with mainlined linux drivers could be interesting as well, but half hour of googling gave me nothing, can't find such beast.

[WanWizard]

The challenge has more and more become the problem of decryption.

 

You could use a VU+ Duo 4K or Ultimo 4K with two FBC modules, and have 16 tuners to play with, but that doesn't give you much if you are stuck with a CI/CI+ module, and a one-transponder/two channels limit. If your provider does sell those modules.

 

I personally have such a setup in the attic, that does all the recording, and provide tuners (I use streaming, not SAT>IP which permanently blocks a tuner) to the other boxes in my house.

[zeros]

Just for the interest, in what purpose do you want to use it? If Sat-TV is necessary then about RPi4 is answer (still) no. Maybe one day it'll change.

[Trial]

Hi,

>Not as bad as others, but still... kernel last updated 8 months ago

LTS kernel are only created every X years but they have longer support. If you have kernel 5.16 support can end after a year or so whereas LTS kernel like the 5.15 have support for X years. LTS kernel are mosly used in commencial enviroment because it is more important to have long support then a high update frequency.

 

Ralf
 

[satopenpli]

...whereas LTS kernel like the 5.15 have support for X years. LTS kernel are mosly used in commencial enviroment because it is more important to have long support then a high update frequency.

LTS kernels are updated as frequently as non-LTS one.
5.15 branch is on version 5.15.53 as we speak, last update was two days ago.

 

From what I read in Edision source code, they dumped 5.15 release in github 8 months ago, without any of subsequent 53 updates. Even though its simple to keep it updated, API is guaranteed binary compatible within the single kernel branch: rebase, test and move on. And mainline kernel developers are pretty specific with their recomendations "All users of the 5.15 kernel series MUST upgrade."

 

 

Just for the interest, in what purpose do you want to use it? If Sat-TV is necessary then about RPi4 is answer (still) no. Maybe one day it'll change.

I want a frontend multimedia box, that keeps getting updated (kernel AND userspace features) for as long as hardware itself lasts, 10 years is OK.

 

 

But it seems general situation with SAT hardware is pretty horrible, to put it mildly.

USB cards are almost non-existent, have out-of-mainline drivers and are overpriced as hell.

PCIe situation is a little less sucky, but need bulky x64 box for that.

Choice of SAT>IP devices is minimal too, pricing quite bad as well.

SBC market is OK, but every device is rotting without kernel updates.

 

Perhaps optimal approach would be to pick cheap STB, install SAT>IP daemon and then firewall and hide it in attic, out of sight.

[satopenpli]

The challenge has more and more become the problem of decryption.

 

You could use a VU+ Duo 4K or Ultimo 4K with two FBC modules, and have 16 tuners to play with, but that doesn't give you much if you are stuck with a CI/CI+ module, and a one-transponder/two channels limit. If your provider does sell those modules.

 

I personally have such a setup in the attic, that does all the recording, and provide tuners (I use streaming, not SAT>IP which permanently blocks a tuner) to the other boxes in my house.

I only watch one encrypted provider, single smartcard slot is enough for me, rest are FTA.

[rantanplan]

A working receiver has nothing to do with the kernel used.
The question is what you want.

A 2.6.32 kernel is still completely sufficient for the demands on an STB.
Every kernel after that also carries a lot of unnecessary baggage with it.
The latest kernel must also be patched.
The larger the kernel, the larger the patches.
Even when using Ubuntu on the PC, you finds again and again that several versions cause problems one after the other.

In the STB area, it should always be a solid kernel as a basis.

Edision is currently the only manufacturer to do this in an exemplary manner.
They are very up-to-date kernels, but their functionality has also been checked beforehand.
If that's still not enough, nobody can help.
 

[satopenpli]

A 2.6.32 kernel is still completely sufficient for the demands on an STB.
 

 

2.6.32 will surely provide STB with a kernel level support for:
1) DVB-T2 sticks currently available on market

2) recent WiFi USB adapters

3) mounting SMB2/SMB3 shares, instead of enabling insecure SMB1

4) Wireguard VPN
5) mounting exFAT formatted drive? or BTRFS formatted, LUKS encrypted and ZSTD compressed drive?

6) modern graphics and hardware video decoding stack, so that upstream versions of software like Kodi can run, instead of relying on questionable vendor hacks and patches

 

Or modern SAT STB needs nothing like that, right?

Edited by satopenpli, 10 July 2022 - 19:57.

[WanWizard]

This discussion is going in circles.

 

The simple truth is:

• most boxes in the market are from distributors, not from manufacturers (they just order a pallet with their own branding)
• all SDK's are under NDA, so only available for OEM manufacturers that have the SoC contracts
• most manufacturers don't even have in-house developers
• every hour of work costs a manufacturer money (more if not in-house)
• there is not a single incentive for them to spend that money
• therefore it doesn't happen

edit:

• SDK's aren't really maintained by the SoC manufacturer
• which means the work to keep it compatible with newer kernel versions is an additional cost without incentive.

[satopenpli]

 

This discussion is going in circles.

 

I agree, got my answers, thank you for responding everybody.

[zeros]

Like a multimedia player with Kodi is Raspberry pi 4 good. But I haven't seen Kodi working well on SAT STB. Maybe you need a number of equipment for different purposes, as many of us do.

[XRayhTec]

Maybe you did not have correct STB or Kodi was not implemented well.

[zeros]

Yes, I can't recommend any of STB for Kodi because it's all random. Even if Kodi works, Addon's not. Those that work don't work stable on a daily basis, and so on and so on. Raspberry pi works 100% of each position with all Addon’s.

Maybe someday in the future, because efforts are made.

[Trial]

Hi,

I even switched with Kodi directly onto my Android TV. CPUs of recent TVs have enough power to handle Kodi quite well.

 

Ralf