67 replies to this topic

[xener]

The restrictive ONLY-MY-IMAGE-IN-FLASH concept is created and pushed only from image builders /images/smiley/sad.gif

Multiboot is the opposite of that: ALL-IMAGES-AT-ONCE

73% of Dreambox users have Multiboot on their boxes because they know that more IS better than one /images/smiley/wink.gif

once you get able to read ba`s so called "multiboot scripts" you never again put that mess to your receiver :-)

[MiLo]

The restrictive ONLY-MY-IMAGE-IN-FLASH concept is created and pushed only from image builders

No.

It's pushed by the authors of the so called multiboot tools. If they did their job decently, there wouldn't be a problem.

Pieter once explained in a long thread here to the meoboot folks how they could enable multiboot to work with PLi and all other images. They never bothered to implement it.

So don't complain to the developers at PLi, complain to the multiboot authors. We'd be happy to provide them with information, but we're not gonna do all the dirty work for them.

[Jeroensky]

Here is a poll: 73% of Dreambox owners are using multiboot

That's a false statistic. becuae Mostly multibootusers will react on such a poll, or readthat topicanyway.
Most non multiboot users really don't give a ...uhum... about multiboot. because they have the knowledge what all can happen as unwantedexperiences with multiboot.
And why multiboot if reflashing is faster and more stable.

Most people with multiboot are unsatisfied of a specific image because of a issue that is created by using mutliboot.

Their will be a day that multiboot users will realize this.

Do you know somebody with a x86 pc with all different kind of ubuntu versions on it? I guess not, well that's almost the same reason.
Why multiboot, if you can choose the image with features you want, or use image and add features you want.
I'd be obvious if it's the windows generation that use multiboot. Never learn to look at other operating systems of different creators /images/smiley/pfft.gif

[rtzhjgg0]

...
So don't complain to the developers at PLi,...

Please understand me correctly, when I say 'concept is created and pushed only from image builders' I mean the image builders of all images. Not just the Pli developers.


@pieterg & Milo
I know perectly that both multiboots have their problems, the same as all images have their problems(!)
But on 73% of Dreamboxes there is a working multiboot with working images.


On my system there are 2 USB-sticks, one with BarryAllen and one with MeoBoot. When I need to change system, I simply flash the appropriate image. On each system they are about 6 different images installed. At the moment I use mostly OoZooN and OpenPli.
But if one day, any of this 6 images will not be Multiboot-compatible, I will simply delete this image from my system and use the other 5 /images/smiley/wink.gif

[WanWizard]

I guess it all depends on what your hobby is: watching TV, or booting boxes.

Why you want 6 different images bootable on a single box is beyond me. If this is about missing functionality, then that issue must be addressed, and not the multiboot issue.

And if you insist on multiboot, do it properly. The current implementations are like booting a linux kernel, and then trying to start Windows on top of that. Instead of making the selection before the kernel is booted, like any other boot manager does.

OpenPLi is going to break multiboots in the future, like it happened in the past. We will not accept being held back by other people's mistakes, incompentence or lazyness. That is not in the interest of your users (those that want to watch TV that is).

[VU+NL]

And if the hobby is about booting boxxes, I still don't understand why not do it properly (using a back-up of the wanted system and flash the box): fast, safe, simple, easy and not difficult.
The strange thing is: nobody ever explains why they don't use that method.

And besides: that's all a proper multiboot-manager should do (and not mixing up systemparts)!

[rtzhjgg0]

...in the interest of your users...

"in the interest of your users"...?

I'm too a PLi fan(!) but nobody can tell me: ONLY-PLI-IN-FLASH or die/images/smiley/more/wink.gif

[VU+NL]

...in the interest of your users...

"in the interest of your users"...?
I'm too a PLi fan(!) but nobody can tell me: ONLY-PLI-IN-FLASH or die/images/smiley/more/wink.gif

I think that "in the interest of users" means that it is our interest to get a stable system, something BA won't guarantee (on the contrary!).

And you don't have to die to use the backup-and-flash method, nor to use an image you do like.

[pieterg]

I'm too a PLi fan(!) but nobody can tell me: ONLY-PLI-IN-FLASH or die/images/smiley/more/wink.gif

we don't tell anybody that.
We don't have a problem with multiboot (because we neither use nor need it), but apparantly some users have. And we cannot really help them, because we cannot force other imagemakers to be more like OpenPLi, and we will not force ourselves to be more like the other images.

Just accept that you cannot mix different types of images, when they differ in areas where it matters.

Please have a look into the technical background, don't just assume it is some political standpoint.

[WanWizard]

...in the interest of your users...

"in the interest of your users"...?

Oops, typo. "our users"...

[Jeroensky]

And if the hobby is about booting boxxes, I still don't understand why not do it properly (using a back-up of the wanted system and flash the box): fast, safe, simple, easy and not difficult.
The strange thing is: nobody ever explains why they don't use that method.

And besides: that's all a proper multiboot-manager should do (and not mixing up systemparts)!

Then you don't choose a Enigma tuner, but then you choose a x86 pc with DVB-S2 tv card(s) in it.
Then you can have all bootoptions you want with grub or LiLo and Linux,windows and whatever you like.

[MiLo]

Or use VMWare

I'm running 2 windowses and a linux simultaneously on my PC at this moment...

[nfnovice]

But on 73% of Dreamboxes there is a working multiboot with working images.

that quote is wrong
it should read 73% of Dreambox owners WHO VOTED use multiboot with working images

if only 1% of dreamboxes owners answered .. then the stat is actuall less than 0.73 % of dreamboxes

[Henksat]

Here is a poll: 73% of Dreambox owners are using multiboot

Impossible, the truth is i guess: 50 % even don`t know how to flash an image, or even how to load channelsettings manualy etc....

[VU+NL]

Statistics/polls are never ever used the right way: everybody can find the answer he wants to find.

[mash3an]

I think that the "Multiboot" option should be kept available for everyone!
the responsibility over the possible damage/instability is on those how choose to use it.

[Frenske]

That the possibility of multiboot should remain is ok.
But how about all questions caused by multiboot which wouldn't be asked with an image in flash?
That's the main reason that we do not support multiboot. It takes to much time to answer those unnecessary questions.

[xener]

images should be build for performance, stability, sharp picture, features helping users to watch a broadcasts or get some info from other souces like webcams, livescores, weather, doing low cost torrent down/up client.
where were you seen on linux or windows its primary aim for making things to run other systems ?
if you like software in your receiver, use it, if not, find other which fit your need.
and remember, other image won`t work on top of pli like expected because differencies, the same apply to other side, pli won`t work on top of other image.
in real linux world, its hard (but possible) to boot kernel from redhat and run gentoo on top, but when you try to use kernel from suse and trying ubuntu on top, you are in big troubles :-)

[rtzhjgg0]

Here is a poll: 73% of Dreambox owners are using multiboot

Abot that 27% of only-Flash users:

I think they are divided in this way
-10% developers and experted users that use Multiboot intensively but can't / won't admit this/images/smiley/wink.gif

-17% newbies or lazy (easily satisfied) people

PS.
but newbies will become soon part of Multiboot majority/images/smiley/smile.gif

[WanWizard]

Still haven't had an answer to my question on WHY you need multiboot.

Multiboot is a consequence of the fact that you as a user are not satisfied with the image we produce. That is the actual issue at hand, and as long as we have to guess WHY, that issue isn't solved.