63 replies to this topic

[Erik Slagter]

But the netto result should be the same.

[malakudi]

@Erik: Forgive me if I am saying something stupid, but I understand that the "delay" option just takes care when the subtitle is first displayed. Not its duration. Maybe you mean that a second subtitle might overwrite the previous one, but that's not the case. It's not a new subtitle that overwrites the previous one, it's just that the subtitle dissapears immediately - I've seen it on some Sky Italia channels too.

[Erik Slagter]

Like said before, a subtitle has no endtime. It disappears because a new one - an empty one - is overwriting the previous none.

 

So what the provider does is send both at almost the same time, relying one "some" internal mechanism in the receiver to delay the second one.

 

It's not so easy actually to build such a workaround in enigma, because it's not that easy to detect an empty subtitle, at least with teletext subtitles, I don't have much experience with dvb subtitles. Teletext "clearing" subtitles tend to be full of transparent characters and metadata. To detect empty dvb subs, enigma would need to scan complete bitmaps (they're graphic...) unless there is somewhere a metadata bit that says it's empty...

[malakudi]

OK, I understood that. So, an option that never shows a new subtitle unless 2 seconds have passed would work on the fast dissapear, but would create problems on displaying of next subtitles or fast dispaying ones (on a dialog for example).

[theparasol]

Why not display first subtitle (1), fetch the next one (2) but dont display it yet but wait for a new subtitle(3). On receive of this new one (3) display the one on hold (2)

So now the new subtitle (3) is on hold and will be displayed when new subtitle (4) arrives

 

1 -> show

2 -> fetch and store, wait for arrival of 3

3 -> fetch and store, now show 2

4 -> fetch and store, now show 3

5-> fetch and store, now show 4

 

Am I overlooking something?

[Erik Slagter]

OK, I understood that. So, an option that never shows a new subtitle unless 2 seconds have passed would work on the fast dissapear, but would create problems on displaying of next subtitles or fast dispaying ones (on a dialog for example).

That could be a workaround, but I think we'd need to check the current "delay when timing lacks" first, as it seems to be inoperative.

 

TS: what channel do you see this behaviour on? Sometimes subtitles are transmitted unencrypted, so we may have a look.

[Erik Slagter]

Why not display first subtitle (1), fetch the next one (2) but dont display it yet but wait for a new subtitle(3). On receive of this new one (3) display the one on hold (2)

So now the new subtitle (3) is on hold and will be displayed when new subtitle (4) arrives

 

1 -> show

2 -> fetch and store, wait for arrival of 3

3 -> fetch and store, now show 2

4 -> fetch and store, now show 3

5-> fetch and store, now show 4

 

Am I overlooking something?

Yes, that means you will get stuck on a subtitle if for a prolonged time no new subs are sent (e.g. if a voice over takes over).

[theparasol]

Thats fine, voice takeover doesnt happen in general. The code should work for regular / normal usage (if you ask me)

[radar]

Why not display first subtitle (1), fetch the next one (2) but dont display it yet but wait for a new subtitle(3). On receive of this new one (3) display the one on hold (2)

So now the new subtitle (3) is on hold and will be displayed when new subtitle (4) arrives

 

1 -> show

2 -> fetch and store, wait for arrival of 3

3 -> fetch and store, now show 2

4 -> fetch and store, now show 3

5-> fetch and store, now show 4

 

Am I overlooking something?

That only shifts display of subs starting from the second, no? How can it fix the issue?

 

OK, I understood that. So, an option that never shows a new subtitle unless 2 seconds have passed would work on the fast dissapear, but would create problems on displaying of next subtitles or fast dispaying ones (on a dialog for example).

That's exactly what I meant.

 

TS: what channel do you see this behaviour on? Sometimes subtitles are transmitted unencrypted, so we may have a look.

Canal+ HD, CSat, Astra 19.2E.

[theparasol]

That only shifts display of subs starting from the second, no? How can it fix the issue?

 

I hope it will prevent the direct overwrite of a readable subtitle with an empty one.

I'm just guessing/hoping an empty subtitle is very soon followed by a readable one.

Perhaps some providers are using blanc/empty subtitle the remove the previous one?!

After all its just an idea to try (or shoot at as it seems stupid as most of my ideas)

[radar]

Don't worry, I have also suggested some ideas that may be stupid. I was only trying to understand how it can help. Did not want to hurt.

[sebsto]

Hello,

I just discovering this thread and I have to say : big +1
I am also suffering from this problem (this causes me some discussions with my wife that needs subtitles more than I do :-))

I am willing to help here - let me know if I can help to debug, test new version etc ...
I can confirm two previously raised questions :

French Canal+ channels broadcasts subtitle in clear - you can have a look even without subscription
(I can give you access to my card to help to debug)

The two delay options in the menu seems to be ineffective. I now understand how they should behave - but it looks like there is no effect (openpli 3 with yesterday's upgrade)

From what I observed, this is only for DVB subtitles, teletext are ok (for the few channels that still have txt)

Le us know how we can move forward ! And thank you guys for the great work !

Seb

[Erik Slagter]

I was planning to do the following as a first step, but maybe you can do it. Run enigma in the foreground and watch messages that enigma emits about showing subtitles. I know it does with text subtitles, I am not sure about dvb subs, but you might want to try. If you find relevant messages, please post them here.

[Alain_sat]

Erik, I don't think you get an answer about the channel.

I mentioned this also a time ago in the dutch part.

With the csat/TNtsat you have TF1HD on Astra having the problem that is mentioned; when a new subtitle arrives too fast the first one disapears.

On Hotbird TF1HD (Télésat, Bis) there the subtitles arrive much too late.

I see they broadcast a movie tonight around 9pm, it will be like that.

If you want, I can record a part and send it somewhere.

The problem was the same on the C+HD channels but we can't watch them anymore on open stb's.

Edited by Alain_sat, 13 October 2013 - 10:33.

[Erik Slagter]

What channel are we talking about, exactly (and on what position)?

[radar]

What channel are we talking about, exactly (and on what position)?

 

I answered few posts above: Canal+ HD, CSat, Astra 19.2E (as an example).

I was planning to do the following as a first step, but maybe you can do it. Run enigma in the foreground and watch messages that enigma emits about showing subtitles. I know it does with text subtitles, I am not sure about dvb subs, but you might want to try. If you find relevant messages, please post them here.

Should I just kill enigma2 process then start it again?

[Erik Slagter]

Alain_sat talks about 19 or 13 and TF1HD.

[Erik Slagter]

Should I just kill enigma2 process then start it again?

Type

 

init 4

enigma2

 

afterwards ^C to stop and then

init 3

to start enigma again in the background.

Edited by Erik Slagter, 13 October 2013 - 11:33.

[radar]

You can find here about 10 minutes of log.

 

I see that important outputs

 

eDVBServicePlay::unpause
disable dvb subtitles
disable teletext subtitles
enable teletext subtitle page 058

and:

 

DMX_SET_PES_FILTER(0x57) - audio - ok
DEMUX_START - audio - ok
AUDIO_SET_BYPASS(0) - ok
AUDIO_PAUSE - ok
AUDIO_PLAY - ok
Video Device: /dev/dvb/adapter0/video0
demux device: /dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0
VIDEO_SET_STREAMTYPE 1 - ok
DMX_SET_PES_FILTER(0xa1) - video - ok
DEMUX_START - video - ok
VIDEO_FREEZE - ok
VIDEO_PLAY - ok
VIDEO_SLOWMOTION(0) - ok
VIDEO_FAST_FORWARD(0) - ok
VIDEO_CONTINUE - ok
AUDIO_CONTINUE - ok
disable teletext subtitles
not pauseable.
not pauseable.
start dvb subtitles on pid 0x0024 with composition_page_id 1 and ancillary_page_id 2
 

And, on regular basis, I have:

 

 

subtitle timeout... hide

 

[Erik Slagter]

What subtitles are you actually using, DVB or teletext?