87 replies to this topic

[Dimitrij]

Hi,

 

When you start a timeshift you never know how long it will last before starting over the playback,

 

but to implement this this will mean a new option:

 

When a timeshift conflict with a timer action:

- stop timeshift and start timer action (default)

- save current timeshift and  start timer action

- keep timeshift active and ignore timer action

 

(timer action: zap, record or zap & record).

 

Pr2

This can be done.

[littlesat]

This will also not work... e.g. for how long do you want to record this timeshift?

 

Whatever you change... in the end-effect what you actually want is an instant recording.... (or save the current timeshift as recording) when you pause... Then the only option could be a popup as soon you pause for timeshift. And this is also not nice I suppose....

Edited by littlesat, 1 April 2015 - 10:49.

[Pr2]

Why this will not work?  This is what CollinB is asking for.
 
I think you didn't pick-up the concern here, so let's take a concrete exemple to explain when this is interesting to have this option.
 
You have a planned recording at 20H30 for exemple on Channel-A.
 
It is now 19H45 and you are watching Channel-B then somebody rings at you bell (this was unplanned), you pause the TV show on Channel-B, because you want to see the end (you never planned to record this show because you don't want to keep it, so you have no reason to record it at all).
You think that it will takes you less than 5 minutes to answer.  But visitor stay at your home until 21H00.
 
You were not watching TV (so any popup is totally useless), you didn't take any action on your STB and at 20H30 planned recording starts as expected.
Today timeshift is stopped (so you lose the end of the TV show that you would like to see the end and that leads you to start timeshift).
 
So action:
- stop timeshift and start timer action (default)
Is the current behavior.
 
- save current timeshift and  start timer action
This is what CollinB asked for. (perhaps we should consider this one as the new default option so we are sure to never lost a timeshift end).
 
- keep timeshift active and ignore timer action
Since we foreseen the two other option may be somebody prefer to give priority to timeshift
 
But to be completed those options are relevant only when there is a conflict between a timeshift and a planned recording! If tuner is available we won't have any problem at all since timeshift won't be stopped and record will happens.
 
To answer your question:  for how long do you want to record this timeshift?
 
This question doesn't make sense here, since the end-user knows that its STB will zap to record something:
- if we are in pause mode and the timer action start and conflict with timeshift it means that the TV show that we were watching previously is finished anyway.
- if we are watching in timeshift (play) and the STB need to zap to record the option to save the timeshift will save the full timeshift so the TV show end will be saved too even if we didn't reach it yet ourself when watching the timeshift.
 
So we have no concern about how long to record timeshift, we just always need to stop and save the full timeshift since we have conflict and that we decide to do this action.

 

[littlesat]

I pick-up the concern... but there is no real structured solution yet...

But it seems nobody really understand this!!! 

A Timeshift should be an endless recording... in theory... so from the beginning in fact there is no solution here...

An instant recording you can choose what it ends... so in the end-effect what you want is a simple instant recording...

[ColinB]

OK so it's heads against the wall.

Is it possible to automatically save "Timeshift" before a timer starts ?

 

I only asked if it was possible ? and TBH this was the first time that it had ever happened to me. The key word being "Automatically"

 

However, I use "timeshift" (Play-Pause) everyday, and many times a day. Wether it's for reviewing a current "News Story" or  to re-listen to the mumbled audio that Hollywood seems to deliver in many of their Films.

 

 

Just a thought ?

 

...there are people who want save something that they just have been watching.

But then you are to late with an instant record.

 

 

Full post was excellent thanks Pr2

 
So we have no concern about how long to record timeshift, we just always need to stop and save the full timeshift since we have conflict and that we decide to do this action.

 

To sum up:

 

I did eveything manually.

 

Timeshift running. Timer set to start. Stopped & saved timeshift before timer. Timer started. Went to movie directory and played saved timeshift file while timer was recording in the background.

 

Anyway thanks everyone

 

colin

[littlesat]

It is not head against the wall as there is no real good solutiion.... Save timeshift before timer starts solved nothing.... You still miss something when no tuner is free...

Edited by littlesat, 1 April 2015 - 21:31.

[ims]

To sum up:

 

I did eveything manually.

 

Timeshift running. Timer set to start. Stopped & saved timeshift before timer. Timer started. Went to movie directory and played saved timeshift file while timer was recording in the background.

 

Anyway thanks everyone

 

colin

it will be interesting on so weak boxes as are xp1000/et4000, when there will be automaticaly in same moment saved file, opened same file for playback and start recording (and on usb).

 

btw, may it be my mistake (hard day today), but when you will watching timeshift file and timer will be running, then you do not need this "strange" feature  because:

a ) on single tuner box it is impossible on different band/polar.

b ) on single tuner box on same band and polar. it is not needed

c ) on 2 and more tuner's box you do not need it never ...

Edited by ims, 1 April 2015 - 21:47.

[Dimitrij]

I started to make a patch.
Just wait...

[Pr2]

...

A Timeshift should be an endless recording... in theory... so from the beginning in fact there is no solution here...

...

 

This is not true, we are not talking here of permanant timeshift but timeshift started manually because we need it during a precise timeslot.

I also use daily timeshift, we start it when needed and when we start watching it, we skip the ads and sometimes we even come back to live TV show, so we stop timeshift and even more isn't the timeshift buffer limited in time? Isn't it using a circular buffer or something similar?

 

Of course, for people that use permanant timeshift this doesn't make sense to select the option to always save the timeshift when a planned recording starts. This I agree with you.

But for people using timeshift when really needed this make sense.

 

 

...

btw, may it be my mistake (hard day today), but when you will watching timeshift file and timer will be running, then you do not need this "strange" feature  because:

a ) on single tuner box it is impossible on different band/polar.

b ) on single tuner box on same band and polar. it is not needed

c ) on 2 and more tuner's box you do not need it never ...

 

 

a) people with poor box are aware of this and that's why the problem araise when a timeshift is started and a recording is started too, the box need to zap and record and so stop the timeshift is lost. So yes you need that strange feature just in this case because you paused the TV show and a planned recording start so the timeshift is "killed" to be able to zap and record, and since you don't start a "pause" just for fun, you expect to be able to restart it, saving it will allow people to watch it back later on.

 

I agree

 

c) I not fully agree you can have multiple tuners in a box but each tuner can received totally different satellites (different setup), so this action can also be useful for people with multiple tuners boxes.  

 

The concern here is not really the number of tuner but how to solve a conflict between a running timeshift and a planned recording.

 

 

I started to make a patch.
Just wait...

 

Thanks.

[littlesat]

This is not true, we are not talking here of permanant timeshift but timeshift started manually because we need it during a precise timeslot.

 

->

 

This is not true... when you start a timeshift it is intended to be infinitive.... Until you zap away... (where you can get a choice now...)

 

 

You describe exactly what in fact an instant recording is doing.... 

 

What could be helpfull here is when you press pause and an (instant/timer) recording is already running on that specific channel/service... pick up that recording and then pause it at the right point.... 

 

@Dimitrij.... you never find a way to make this correctly... this is in theory simply not possible....

 

a) people with poor box are aware of this and that's why the problem araise when a timeshift is started and a recording is started too, the box need to zap and record and so stop the timeshift is lost. 

 

->

 

In theory when you have a timer planned than always you get into this topic... as when the timeshift is started you never know when the timeshift should be ended....

 

I'm extreme afraid the real issue is not understand here.... There is simply no good solution here!!!

Edited by littlesat, 2 April 2015 - 10:42.

[Pr2]

This is not true... when you start a timeshift it is intended to be infinitive.... Until you zap away... (where you can get a choice now...)
 
 
You describe exactly what in fact an instant recording is doing.... 

 
That's an interesting discussion because I think that you don't use the timeshift the same way as ColinB and I do.
I am not stopping a timeshift by zapping away and I never leave timeshift running forever (I only use timeshift on demand when really needed) and I always stop a timeshift by pressing the stop button and then we have a menu, but this menu is meaningful when you perform the action from the RCU watching TV.
Here the case is that we are in pause and don't watch the TV so this menu is useless.
 

What could be helpfull here is when you press pause and an (instant/timer) recording is already running on that specific channel/service... pick up that recording and then pause it at the right point....

Absolutely not it is just the opposite way! There is no instant recording running. Indeed if we launch an instant recording instead of a timeshift we have no problem since it will be saved on the HDD, but we cannot always use instant recording instead of timeshift, in the scenario I describe it is clear that timeshift was the right way to pause live TV.

I don't know why you think that it is unsolvable, when there is a conflict between a running timeshift and a scheduled recording (this is already detected since we have the screen that warm end-user that the box will zap to be able to record) lets decide before hand in the global configuration of OpenPLi which one of the 3 actions I suggest should be executed.

I think that OpenPli already has everything in the code (saving timeshift already exist) it is just some more logics/actions to add with the warning screen about zap before recording.

[littlesat]

You want something to add in timeshift.... but in fact wat you want is an instant recording you can timeshift -or- a timeshift you "transfer" into an instant recording... so a timeshift that also stopped at a specific time...

[Pr2]

Yes this is correct: a timeshift you "transfer" into an instant recording... so a timeshift that also stopped at a specific time...

And of course that the timeshift stop at a specific time and this time is when there is a conflict with a scheduled recording! Everything turns around this conflict.

[littlesat]

A solution could be.... give a popup at that conflict to have a choice... but that does also not work, because when you're at the toilet you missed that popup and then the box needs to make the choice for you....

 

Then I suggest it is better to give a notification as soon you start the timeshift that gives you a time-indication how long this timeshift could be "recorded" correctly without any topic... so you have the choice to make it an instant recording and/or cancel that other specific recording... Make it RED when e.g. it is less than one hour ore yellow when it is between 1-3 hours...

 

E.g. what could be done is give a value of the max possible duration on the OSD.... (which could also be infinitive)....

 

But still someone needs to make this algorithm as soon you start a timeshift....

[WanWizard]

You have to see it this way:

 

When you manually zap away when a timeshift is running, you get a popup and you have the option to save, right?

 

The problem here is that the box decides to zap away (because of the recording that started) and nobody is there to deal with anything interactive. So you need a config option that says "if the box decides to zap when a timeshift recording is running, choose option X automatically without showing a popup".

[Pr2]

You've got it WanWizard!

[littlesat]

And then never you have a good solution.....

 

either the timed recording or the timeshift will not be complete.... (Now this is default the timeshift... and I think this is not a bad choice...)

 

So I still think the out-of-the-box idea of having a duration how long a timeshift may take is a good approach... Then the user is capable of decide in forehand... But we need an option in addition to change a timeshift into an instant recording...

Edited by littlesat, 2 April 2015 - 16:59.

[WanWizard]

The TS doesn't agree with you. On all your suggestions.

[Taapat]

But maybe for timeshift duration choice can be used the current event duration? There is a very high probability that the user wants to watch only the current event to the end. Of course always event information not exists or it is not correct, but perhaps that may be used?

[ims]

uff... we have 4 type of instant recording and we will make timeshift as next instant recordings ...

Edited by ims, 2 April 2015 - 18:08.