250 replies to this topic

[Eragon]

Would be interesting to have a manual config that is working with this switch...

If you mean the 9732 Unitron-Johansson multiswitch  working with a user defined JESS configuration, I have already posted all the information here:

https://forums.openp...ndpost&p=630877

[littlesat]

We're discussing the switch that is currently used for Sky-UK...

[WanWizard]

As far as I can see the specs are the same for all SKY implementations. Here are the docs for the Triax.

 

The Teldis switch is an OEM of the Unitron one. And according to http://helpforum.sky...CR/td-p/2569618 you can reprogram the Inverto IDLU-UWT110-CUO1O-32P to make it compatible.

Attached Files

•  307370en.pdf   99.42KB   3 downloads
•  TMDS 54C User Guide (Rev 5).pdf   734.82KB   4 downloads

[Eragon]

The Triax multiswitch user band specifications are the same as the Unitron-Johansson's, as probably this too is using a Maxlinear IC.

As per the specifications, user bands 1 to 4 (Triax numbering start from 0, so 0 to 3) are only EN50494 (Unicable I) compatible, not also JESS/EN50607.

Edited by Eragon, 21 December 2016 - 15:15.

[Erik Slagter]

Would it be of interest to arrange one of these Unitron switches, so we can do some tests ourselfs? I could see what our contact in Belgium can arrange?

With the risk that can't make it work, due to missing knownledge. It's a bit risky at this stage imho.

[Erik Slagter]

We may assume it is especially designed to meet the requirements of apartment buildings with a mixed STB environment, so the switch can support both the new SKY Q system as the old SKY+ HD system with unicable at the same time.

 

If we want to fully support switches like this, we may need to redesign some of our system, because the "format" is no longer defined per switch, but per frequency/position.

A "redesign" is not necessary, we need to considerate whether for a few(?) users we need to supply complete predefined switches. Because using user defined user bands, it already works.

 

@Erogan, yes that proves that JESS isn't supported at the first four user bands. Weird, I can't explain it.

[Erik Slagter]

The Triax multiswitch user band specifications are the same as the Unitron-Johansson's, as probably this too is using a Maxlinear IC.

As per the specifications, user bands 1 to 4 (Triax numbering start from 0, so 0 to 3) are only EN50494 (Unicable I) compatible, not also JESS/EN50607.

Yes apparantly Sky has all sorts of weird requirements to comply with. I wouldn't be surprised if that is because their own receivers have bugs/flaws.

[Eragon]

Inverto JESS/EN50607 multiswitches (that I owned) have user bands 1 to 8 compatible both with EN50494 and EN50607, 9 to 32 only with EN50607.

 

Initially I had to return the Inverto JESS/EN50607 multiswitch because the Sky technician who came to install the new Sky+ Pro receiver refused to approve my installation and required to replace my Inverto multiswitch with a basic Unitron-Johansson model (dCSS-41) approved by Sky.

Edited by Eragon, 21 December 2016 - 16:03.

[Erik Slagter]

Inverto JESS/EN50607 multiswitches (that I owned) have user bands 1 to 8 compatible both with EN50494 and EN50607, 9 to 32 only with EN50607.

Yes and that is what we'd expect, that is "normal" behaviour (and compliant).
 

Initially I had to return the Inverto JESS/EN50607 multiswitch because the Sky technician who came to install the new Sky+ Pro receiver refused to approve my installation and required to replace my Inverto multiswitch with a basic Unitron-Johansson model (dCSS-41) approved by Sky.

So sad...

[Eragon]

I suspect that at least in Italy there is a different situation than in UK for what regards the available sat providers and channels.

 

In Italy there is a large group of free terrestrial channels (public and private) who associated and created an encrypted sat bouquet (called TivuSat) to reach all the people that have problematic DVB-T reception (as in the mountains).

This bouquet is actually free: each Italian citizen who regularly pays the national TV fee has the right to apply for the smartcard (that unfortunately is currently sold only along with a Unicable I certified TivusSat receiver or CI module).

 

Well, TivuSat and Sky aren't getting along, so the Tivusat channels cannot be included in the Sky bouquet and decoded by the Sky receivers.

So people in problematic areas need to have 2 receivers running on the same sat installation.

Sky has to take this situation into account: the new 8-tuners receiver must coexist with another Unicable I receiver, so allocating all the 16 user bands as the Sky Q UK does won't likely be feasible and acceptable in many situations.

 

For this reason probably in Italy (and Germany and Austria) the Sky approved LNBs and multiswitches provide this particular user band management.

 

 

[WanWizard]

In the UK it is easier in this respect.

 

You have "Freeview", which is a DVB-T based offering that is free to view (i.e. without a card) and you have "Freesat" which is DVB-S based, and is also free to view (i..e without a card). Some commercial TV providers (like ITV and UKTV) have chosen to offer their SD channels for free, but for the HD versions of those channels you need the HD pack enabled on your Sky subscription.

[Erik Slagter]

BSkyB has a monopoly, I am not sure that is desirable, though...

Edited by Erik Slagter, 22 December 2016 - 17:09.

[Huevos]

I Some commercial TV providers (like ITV and UKTV) have chosen to offer their SD channels for free, but for the HD versions of those channels you need the HD pack enabled on your Sky subscription.

No. ITV is a public service channel so HD version has to be free and not encrypted.

 

Anyway this switch has nothing to do with Sky UK. This uses a Universal LNB. Or for Sky Q a wide band LNB. No switch.

[WanWizard]

For the last time Huevos: This entire discussion is about SKY switches for use in apartment buildings! And NOT about the wideband LNB that is used in standalone installations.

 

And ITV is NOT a public service channel, it is a commercial station, and has been since 1955, it is the oldest commercial network in the UK: http://www.itvplc.com/about/what-we-do

[Rob van der Does]

And hence only ITV1HD is FTA, 2,3 & 4 are encrypted.

[littlesat]

It is very easy to add a syntax to the unicable.xml file to make it also possible for these wierd lnb's... We only need to change the ui a bit... The syntax could be easy... E.g. Add format="skyswitch" (or a better name, e.g. "unicable,4,jess" and I think this is beside jess and unicable a different format) and when we have this string here I arrange the first 4 scrs are further handled as unicable and the rest are jess... This way just one or two lines needs to be changed python (thanks to the fact the ui is completely restructured now). For cpp nothing needs to be adapted...j

Edited by littlesat, 23 December 2016 - 10:42.

[Eragon]

For the unicable.xml file I previously suggested (and tested) using 2 lines for these multiswitches: the first line with only the first 4 EN50494 user bands, the second line with the remaining 12 EN50607 user bands.

 

Something like this:

<manufacturer name="Unitron-Johansson (for Sky)">
   <product name="9732 (UNICABLE/EN50494)" positions="1" scrs="1210,1420,1680,2040"/>
   <product name="9732 (JESS/EN50607)" positions="1" format="jess" scrs="985,1050,1115,1275,1340,1485,1550,1615,1745,1810,1875,1940"/>
</manufacturer>

To solve the problem in the tuner settings that the scr user bands would be always listed starting from number 1, maybe it could be possible to adopt a scr "named" identification method.

 

Something like this:

<manufacturer name="Unitron-Johansson (for Sky)">
   <product name="9732 (UNICABLE/EN50494)" positions="1" scrs="1=1210,2=1420,3=1680,4=2040"/>
   <product name="9732 (JESS/EN50607)" positions="1" format="jess" scrs="5=985,6=1050,7=1115,8=1275,9=1340,10=1485,11=1550,12=1615,13=1745,14=1810,15=1875,16=1940"/>
</manufacturer>

For compatibility, the default scr numbering (starting from 1) could be used if "named" scr user band are missing (i.e. the "n=" identification is not included).

 

This way only the unicable.xml parsing code should be modified.

 

And this could also allow to start the scr numbering from 0 and not from 1, as the Triax multswitches have reported in their installation manuals.

Edited by Eragon, 23 December 2016 - 12:58.

[littlesat]

I think we should not think here work-a-round like....... Please note in the manual config you can already configure everything... the format setting is per LNB and not general...

 

I'm considering to doing something like this... I'm doubting if dSCR is a good name as format name for this...???

 

 

<product name="9732" positions="1" format="dSRC" scrs="1210,1420,1680,2040,985,1050,1115,1275,1340,1485,1550,1615,1745,1810,1875,1940"/>

 

For format="dSCR" we could consider a different name...

 

Then add this special format to line 1205 in NimManager.py

 

section.format = ConfigSelection([("unicable", _("Unicable")), ("jess", _("JESS")), "dSRC", _("dSRC"))], default=productparameters.get("format", "unicable"))

 

and consider also to add it in line 1265

 

section.format = ConfigSelection([("unicable", _("Unicable")), ("jess", _("JESS")), "dSRC", _("dSRC"))])

 

Then line 330 in NimManager.py

 

sec.setLNBSatCRformat(2 if currLnb.format.value == "jess" or (currLnb.format.value == "dSRC" and currLnb.scrList.index > 4) else 1)

 

I hope this is sufficient for you for testing...

 

And maybe we should add an additional mode for these kind of switches in cpp... and do the currLnb.format.value == "dSRC" and currLnb.scrList.index > 4 comparision in cpp... But still the "hardware" stuff is jess or unicable... so I think the above is sufficient..

Edited by littlesat, 23 December 2016 - 15:23.

[Huevos]

For the last time Huevos: This entire discussion is about SKY switches for use in apartment buildings! And NOT about the wideband LNB that is used in standalone installations.

You are missing my point. Doesn't matter if it is an apartment building or not. There are 2 wideband feeds on Sky Q. You would just split them up with spliters. No switch needed.

[WanWizard]

You are missing the point.

 

If I would climb up on the roof today to swap the LNB on the dish for a wideband LNB, everyone else in the building would no longer have TV (not taking into account the switches that are currently in place). You need the switches to support the legacy HD boxes, the HD+ boxes (which do Unicable I), and Sky Q (Sky-proprietary JESS) at the same time. I don't know how it is in your country, but here you can not force ALL tenants to switch to SKY Q, all at the same time.

 

My goal, and the entire reason for this discussion, is stil the same. I want to be able to connect a non-SKY box (i.e. a box running OpenPLi) to such a system, and be able to watch TV. At least all Freesat channels. Irrespective of the type of system my flat was configured for.