48 replies to this topic

[WanWizard]

Hence I think it should be an integral part of Enigma, as the complete logic is quite complicated.

 

For example, what if you put the box in standby, it starts decoding a recording, and then you start again? Or you switch it off? Or you have a power failure? You would want Enigma to keep track of the decoding status, so it can pick it up where it previously stopped, transparent for the end-user.

 

As always with VU+, the idea isn't bad, the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

 

I think it is possible to know / detect if a recording (a transport stream) is descrambled, store that in the meta data, and have some icon display the status? Like the progress icon for playback? If you have code that goes through the recordings to offline decode, it can also update the metadata.

 

Something else that comes to mind: there are a lot of places where you can store a recording, so that is something to look at as well. And that includes Enigma's "auto-folder-name" feature for series. Also, what if you record on box A, and you have box B available that is permanently in standby (for example an old XP1000) and have that do the offline decoding?

[littlesat]

For example, what if you put the box in standby, it starts decoding a recording, and then you start again?

You can follow the same method as I did for cable- and fastscan... All is covered there...

[Rob van der Does]

 

offline decrypting via a CAM, and

What do you mean with CAM.... CI(+) ???? Indeed that is new....

 

And here the plugin and code they made for the offline decoding when the box is in standby...

 

http://code.vuplus.c...28a9862e4d70efe

 

I also hope they did add a 'slow downer' to it... so e.g. our Dutch M7 cards no not get into "punishment" mode...

 

A CAM is a Conditional Access Module, sometimes called CI-module.

 

 

From betatesting the Inverto 7000 (indeed: years ago ) I remember that (in the end) offline decoding was automated in the following way:

1- Once the box is in standby for xx minutes the eldest not-decrypted file was being decoded. This happened by simply (internal) playback of the file at around 8 times normal speed.

2- Both the encrypted and the decrypted file were kept; a marker made clear which one was (de)coded.

3- If the box came out of standby before the decoding of a file was finished (by hand or because of a planned recording), the partly decoded file was deleted.

 

Translated to E2 a similar work-flow seems to be possible, but:

1- Instead of starting offline decoding after a fixed amount of time judging the time to the next timed recording seems more logical.

2- Encrypted files could also be kept, or moved to the trashcan (giving the option to descramble them once more when required).

3- By plugin (only for boxes supporting this feature) or integrated in E2 (giving the user the idea his box does support it) doesn't seem to make much difference. In both cases E2 will do all the work.

[WanWizard]

I agree with your analysis.

 

As for B1, offline decoding should only be postponed when the recording uses the same provider (perhaps configurable, as the M7 CI (aka orca) doesn't have a problem with multiple ECM requests).

 

As for B3, I don't see the point of a separate plugin if everything has to happen in E2. It will just mean having to deal with it in two different places, imho it should be integrated into the "recording" screens.

[Rob van der Does]

As for B1, offline decoding should only be postponed when the recording uses the same provider (perhaps configurable, as the M7 CI (aka orca) doesn't have a problem with multiple ECM requests).

Not sure what you mean.
IMHO all recordings should be encrypted, in order to keep the CAM free for live-TV/streaming. And decryption should take place at a later state.

As for B3, I don't see the point of a separate plugin if everything has to happen in E2. It will just mean having to deal with it in two different places, imho it should be integrated into the "recording" screens.

Whatever PLi thinks to be the neatest way. For the user it makes no difference.
Maybe the decision will also be dependant on the question if one and the same work-flow/coding is supported by all hardware (drivers).

[littlesat]

1- Once the box is in standby for xx minutes the eldest not-decrypted file was being decoded. This happened by simply (internal) playback of the file at around 8 times normal speed.

When you have a CDS or TVV card you can only go to 4x the speed.... that is why we have a setting for ECM intervals in the recordings menu.... Set it e.g. at 3 seconds to avoid your card may get into punishment mode...

[WanWizard]

 

As for B1, offline decoding should only be postponed when the recording uses the same provider (perhaps configurable, as the M7 CI (aka orca) doesn't have a problem with multiple ECM requests).

 

Not sure what you mean.

 

You used numbered lists. So I've referred to the first by A, and the second by B.

 

The rest of that sentence is not I problem I think?

[littlesat]

Indeed orca ci does not have that issue... Unless it can only encrypt two streams/ecms from just one teansponders at once...

Edited by littlesat, 19 June 2017 - 17:52.

[Rob van der Does]

As for B1, offline decoding should only be postponed when the recording uses the same provider (perhaps configurable, as the M7 CI (aka orca) doesn't have a problem with multiple ECM requests).

 
Not sure what you mean.

 
You used numbered lists. So I've referred to the first by A, and the second by B.
 
The rest of that sentence is not I problem I think?

Hehe, your using A & B was clear, but the "offline decoding should only be postponed when the recording uses the same provider" isn't.

[Rob van der Does]

1- Once the box is in standby for xx minutes the eldest not-decrypted file was being decoded. This happened by simply (internal) playback of the file at around 8 times normal speed.

When you have a CDS or TVV card you can only go to 4x the speed.... that is why we have a setting for ECM intervals in the recordings menu.... Set it e.g. at 3 seconds to avoid your card may get into punishment mode...

Are you sure; how did you test this?
4 times speed is not the same as SID = 4 (max). This is about one recording (one service) at a time.

[littlesat]

I tried it years ago... it is not a sid limited feature in the card. Instead it is a time limited feature.

Edited by littlesat, 20 June 2017 - 07:10.

[WanWizard]

 

 

Hehe, your using A & B was clear, but the "offline decoding should only be postponed when the recording uses the same provider" isn't.

 

Ok.

 

What I meant was that if I have a SKY smartcard and a CDS smartcard, and a SKY recording is being offline decoded, it should not be stopped if a CDS recording is about to start. But you may want to stop the offline decode if a SKY recording is about to start,

 

I know the example isn't 100% as SKY doesn't have a SID/time limiter, but I hope you understand what I mean now.

[littlesat]

This feature only really works when you always do encrypting afterwards... Then always the encrypting is free for watching. Especially when you use ci. And it makes the code less complicated (e.g. You zap from one card to the other - should we stop the encoding?)

[Rob van der Does]

IMHO once this feature works it should be like: recordings from services descrambled by using a softcam should take place immediately (as is the default now) while those using a CAM should always be recorded encrypted (for later decrypting).

[mrvica]

I pointed allready to https://sourceforge....projects/tsdec/
source code (GPL) is available for older versions, search the web for tsdec_0.4.0.zip , so you don´t need to start form scratch

[littlesat]

When you have a card it is always better to record encrypted... it keeps your card guaranteed out of punishment mode...

Edited by littlesat, 20 June 2017 - 14:44.

[Erik Slagter]

I still don't get the fuss, because for offline descrambling through the CI, one STILL needs hardware support. AFAIK most open receivers don't have that and then it ends right there. Apparently VU+ can do it, we only need to find out the "trick" to enable it (as apparently it's default off) and then it will work out of the box, we already have support for offline descrambling.

 

And if you're worried about over-asking your card, just set the "offline decoding delay" option. It has been in the config for years.

[Rob van der Does]

Well, I guess plenty of VU-4k STB's are available in the team, so using VTi 11.02 should show the ins and outs of 'the trick' quite easily.  

[mrvica]

good idea, they could just upload an example.ts

[WanWizard]

Well, I guess plenty of VU-4k STB's are available in the team...

 

How I wish that was true...