239 replies to this topic

[MCelliotG]

So, you called me a troll and now you are acting nice right?

I do this for fun and as a hobby, that's your profession I guess you're a seller right? I can't blame you if this is the case, how are you gonna sell a product if you don't act a fool I guess?

 

You need answers my friend, but you deliberately fail to provide an answer to any of my questions! All you do is ridicule me by acting like you don't understand what I say. I'm very specific. I describe two problems other manufacturers have already solved.

 

Which made me decide that I will sell my HD51. I fully regret buying it. It's obvious it's not gonna be any substantial support for it. Where was last driver update? No one can even remember!

 

I'm not interested in getting in a fight with you. You don't know me (even though you were quick to call me names) and I don't know you. All I know now is that this conversation is futile. If you have any connection to Mutant and its developers you made it more than clear that you are unwilling to report issues, especially since you act there are none!

 

That's OK I guess, I realize HD51 is not a receiver for me. And it's too bad I'm gonna lose my favourite team's support with buying the only receiver that works 100% which is a Dreambox DM920. I guess you cannot have everything after all.

 

That is all I have to say. I'm done with this conversation. I tried my best to provide an insight for its problems. And this is the treatment I get. Thank you very much!

[WTE]

I do really not care what you do with your box and that you care what one person says. I find your way of forcing with wrong facts trolling when your offended, it was not so meant.

When you do not want to believe me about powermeasurement (even shown proof) and the manipulate values you post about SF4008 it's all fine by me as I know I am right.

I do not say that other boxes like HD51 is fine. Maybe there is something wrong but till now I didn't see it.

 

When you want to help other users please explain how you can install the plugin "Service info tuner live values" who is maintainer and is it made compatible for all boxes.

As this plugin shown values like 9750/10600 it seems the values come from Enigma2 and not the dvb-tuner.

Edited by WTE, 30 March 2018 - 04:13.

[betacentauri]

At first I don’t really care about dB values...

But WTE you only said something to problem 1. What about problem 2. I read several times that this demod uses 0.25 dB steps. 14.7 dB is a strange value if you have 0.25 steps, or?

[Robinson]

MCelliotG is totally right, so I'm not sure why WTE is trying to ridicule him.

I also bought HD51 because it was widely recommended for its reliability and support.

The first thing was "rotor issue", which Huevos warned us against. Despite that, I decided to buy it only to experience a long waiting time before the picture appears after moving the dish. That was the main issue for me, apparently worked-around for a simple setup - with the powermeasurement set to off. OK.

Then there's service information in the menu. If blue buton is used to show frontend info, only 2 oscilaltor frequencies are shown, instead of service frequency. If lamedb values are displayed then everything is OK but I would really prefer the real frequency as reported correctly by the tuner.

And the third issue is signal strength. So far, my previous boxes have shown smooth values while HD51 reports signal strength with large increments but I have not investigated this issue very much.

[Erik Slagter]

@Erik, "only used when the connected endpoint can't understand DiSEqC"

 

DiSEqC is modulated onto 22kHz tone.

That is of course 100% true, but I was replying to the phrase "22 Khz tone(-burst)". Which are legacy techniques.

[Erik Slagter]

WTE: there are two "issues" discussed. As already explained before.

 

One issue is the reporting of the signal quality which some of the users here don't agree with. You replied to that and I think your answer may be very well valid so I am not going that discuss that again.

 

The other issue the reporting of the actual frequency tuned to. Like I wrote a few days ago already but you fail to comprehend.

 

Enigma can show the tuned frequency as requested (from the lamedb, user configured, etc.), this information has been introduced some year ago and is now default. Enigma can also show the frequency the tuner has actually tuned to. This almost always differs from the frequency requested, due to AFC of the tuner compensating for all kinds of drift. Formerly this was the only displayed "frequency" value. Enigma can only retrieve this information from the tuner+driver, it's 100% dependend on that information being correct.

 

Now when enigma retrieves this information, for all brands/tuners it nicely gets the actual tuned frequency. For the hd51, though, it gets the frequency of the oscillator (one of two static frequencies), which is completely uninteresting to know, because it can be derived easily and carries no information (as said before). The driver should be fixed to report the correct information, i.e. the frequency actually tuned to.

[WTE]

At first I don’t really care about dB values...

But WTE you only said something to problem 1. What about problem 2. I read several times that this demod uses 0.25 dB steps. 14.7 dB is a strange value if you have 0.25 steps, or?

 

Demod doesn't supply better accurate then 0.25, so you see only values like *.0, *.2, *.5, *.7 which is short to 1 digit after the dot probably because enigma2 uses this values.

So strange I do not believe so, that values should been shown two digit after the dot maybe as some users seems to like it very much.

[betacentauri]

No, the driver reports 14,70. See post 195 https://forums.openp...ndpost&p=863729

Why can't it report 14,75 ?

[WTE]

No, the driver reports 14,70. See post 195 https://forums.openp...ndpost&p=863729

Why can't it report 14,75 ?

 

Probably because value are reduce to 1 digit and not 2 digits.
It's good to report this and request to show values with 2 digits after the dot.

[WTE]

Now when enigma retrieves this information, for all brands/tuners it nicely gets the actual tuned frequency. For the hd51, though, it gets the frequency of the oscillator (one of two static frequencies), which is completely uninteresting to know, because it can be derived easily and carries no information (as said before). The driver should be fixed to report the correct information, i.e. the frequency actually tuned to.

 

DVB-S Frequency are between 10700 and 27500
Then you have the LO values which depend of the LNB. The common used universale LNB's have LO value of  9750 and 10600

This values you set in Enigma2 and aren't frequency which I want to point out.

So why are in the plugin given LO value and not Frequency values and does this value come from Enigma2 or from the tuner itself.

I think I understand now what is wish for. When I am wrong please coorect me.
Enigma2 tunes the silabs tuner with the request values. This info is full provide by Enigma2 and the demod tuner has at that point nothing to say.

The demod colllects the values and it can maybe tune the input values a bit with some offset.

So if I understand you send to silabs tuner example:

12515H 22000 auto, the silabs tuner will tune maybe to 12516H 22001 auto.

This values are report back from the silabs to Enigma2 and there is a plugin which collect this data.

 

So which plugin or setting does an user need to change in enigma2 to show the "real" tune values which is provide back by the tuner.

[Robinson]

The values here are correct because the screenshots come from a different box.

Attached Files

•  Frontend_info_1.jpg   128.5KB   5 downloads
•  Frontend_info_2.jpg   96.85KB   5 downloads

Edited by Robinson, 30 March 2018 - 15:37.

[WTE]

The values here are correct because the screenshots come from a different box.

 

Tnx, this is information is very helpfull and tells direct the problem.

Now the problem can been report to Asia.

 

It seems the problem is caused by the RT720 (frontend) and not the Silabs

Edited by WTE, 30 March 2018 - 18:32.

[Huevos]

"tuner live values" was always available in the code. Then a few years ago I added it as a config option so users could decide what to display on the infobar. It is not just frequency, it also reports symbol rate, FEC, modulation, etc.

 

@WTE, there is no plugin involved.

 

The way I see it, it is easier for a development team to blame enigma2 than fix their drivers. When a development team says things like "our drivers are fine, and that it is all the other manufacturers drivers and enigma2 that are at fault" it is time to stop listening.

[WTE]

"tuner live values" was always available in the code. Then a few years ago I added it as a config option so users could decide what to display on the infobar. It is not just frequency, it also reports symbol rate, FEC, modulation, etc.

 

@WTE, there is no plugin involved.

 

The way I see it, it is easier for a development team to blame enigma2 than fix their drivers. When a development team says things like "our drivers are fine, and that it is all the other manufacturers drivers and enigma2 that are at fault" it is time to stop listening.

 

It seems live tuner values got absolute and put far back in the background in enigma2. Just to been clear I am not a member of any development team and my interest is the boxes which I use to make better.

In the way to make a good report (as no other enigma2 team has done yet for this problem) you need to check if it's a problem in enigma2, driver or both.

99 of 100 cases it isn't dicuss like this, probably because it goes now over many points.

 

Fact is that the 9750 and 10600 value in the tuner live values picture comes from enigma2. Actually that was my question were this values came from.

I am pleased that "Robinson" point out how you can check easily the live tuner values. The problem is definitely a driver problem.

 

The motor turning it's problem cause by enigma2 bug but not everyone seems to accept this conclusion.

 

The dB value is a bit cosmetic in my believe as enigma2 shows only 1 number after the dot so it works actually ok. However a special tool called  dvb-fe-tool ( which is provide by packages v4l-utils ) shown 2 digit. I can agree when 2 digits behind the dot is possible it should give this value and probably enigma2 rounds it back to 1 digit.

 

Further you had the compare of the frontend values. The values given of compared model were "manipulate" values. I do not know if there is a problem with HD51 but compare with fake values and make conclusions is really not possible with the info given. Actually this tests you can only been done with a dvb signal generator.

[athoik]

You can use dvb-fe-tool as well to get real values from tuner.

# dvb-fe-tool -g -f 1
FREQUENCY = ....
INVERSION = OFF
SYMBOL_RATE = 30000000
INNER_FEC = 3/4
MODULATION = PSK/8
PILOT = AUTO
ROLLOFF = 20
POLARIZATION = OFF
STREAM_ID = 4294967295
DELIVERY_SYSTEM = DVBS2

[MCelliotG]

I'm glad things seem to be moving at last, at least the very difficult situation I had to force myself into was not in vain.

We finally have an acceptance of what I've been saying and proving for so long, that there is a driver problem. Finally!!!

 

Just a bit of clarification,

the one digit indication in OpenPLI's GUI has nothing to do with the roundown of values the tuner of HD51 reports. Normally all drivers with DVBAPI v5 will report a two digit value and this is what the fe-tool reads.

OpenPLI has a cosmetic delivery on db values inside the FrontentInfo.py

elif self.type  == self.SNR or self.type == self.SNRdB:
			if self.source.snr_db is not None:
				return _("%3.01f dB") % (self.source.snr_db / 100.0)

In this code it's clear they choose to output the values with one digit after the dot. If I recall correctly it used to be 3.02f in the past but was changed at some point. Dreambox has retained this code and outputs two digits in the skins. Perhaps with Vu not supporting db with their DVBAPIv3 philosophy things got complicated and a simplification was necessary. Personally I change it in my setups as I used to have a BCM73xx tuner in my OSmini which is very very accurate!

 

Bottom line is the output of rounded values in HD51 wouldn't be that much of a problem if it was reported correctly, but in many cases we don't have even a 0.3 increment but larger. The driver seems to skip more increments which makes the values totally unreliable even for someone that tries to tune their dish. This is why I asked for it to be investigated since this happens only on HD51 and its variants and not other receivers with Silabs. Other problems are more important anyway.

 

Lastly, I would like to thank all the people that sent me messages of encouragement, I did not expect that and I'm very grateful.

And to apologize to the forum if I caused any inconvenience!

[Neo64]

^{11 pages chat for a simple solution, how many other Teams have been implanted in their images for a week, I do not know what to say ......}

[Erik Slagter]

WTE I've explained the issue two times and you keep draggin in stuff that is totally irrelevant and avoiding the real issue. I suggest you read either one of my previous again and try to understand what they say.

[darkman13]

^{11 pages chat for a simple solution, how many other Teams have been implanted in their images for a week, I do not know what to say ......}

YEEEEES....and HD51 has a biiiiiig problem ..but octagon.vu and dm...have a big problems and cost many money.....shame mutant you are a problem with a signal,values.db and powermeasurement bla bla bla..and you dont have a new driver ...but why a new driver????....a new driver any week how does dm and vu ..this is the best suport???

 

By the way am very happy with my mutant,it gives me the same things as dm,vu octagon...maybe even more and better.....by the way i am not a simple user with a fantasy that has now discovered this hobby

 

For me..for now...the best 4k are....mutant and gigablue...

[Neo64]

 

^{11 pages chat for a simple solution, how many other Teams have been implanted in their images for a week, I do not know what to say ......}

YEEEEES....and HD51 has a biiiiiig problem ..but octagon.vu and dm...have a big problems and cost many money.....shame mutant you are a problem with a signal,values.db and powermeasurement bla bla bla..and you dont have a new driver ...but why a new driver????....a new driver any week how does dm and vu ..this is the best suport???

 

By the way am very happy with my mutant,it gives me the same things as dm,vu octagon...maybe even more and better.....by the way i am not a simple user with a fantasy that has now discovered this hobby

 

For me..for now...the best 4k are....mutant and gigablue...

 

What are you talking about money and nonsense? Meeee I have all models and aki is a question of work, not of any driver. If you have everything images except my OpenPli, what do you want me to keep quiet?, for nothing. stop dizzy aki we talk serious things and not ...................