346 replies to this topic

[WanWizard]

It isn't. It's "a complex".

 

Everything is complex if you don't understand how it works...

[HWTest]

A theoretical question: If I have one Unicable LNB connected to one input of the FBC tuner and nothing connected to the other input, can I use all eight tuners?

How do I set up tuner B in such a scenario - loop through?

[WanWizard]

Never tried that, I don't know if the module has internal loop-through on the inputs.

[GThomas]

Yes, you can.

That's precisely what I did on "my" setup.

Just mark tuner B as "connected" to tuner A.

Do same with all other tuners, too.

[jenseneverest]

Hehe and "it's not complex"...

Yes brain is now fried.

The gigablue was bought as a replacement for my quad tuner xpeed lx3 that bit the dust (I am now missing it big time)

These are the specs:

Satellite Tuner

2 x Full-Band Capture Front End

Demodulator

8 x DVB S2, DVB-C2, DVB-T2

So yes I fell for the sales pitch big time

If I can not use unicable lnb on a rotor then im not sure what to do now.??

Is it not possible to use one rotor and a unicable lnb with a legacy feed to the motor and 1 satellite input of the gigablue and then the scr output to the other gigablue input run via a second cable...??

Edited by jenseneverest, 11 December 2018 - 18:19.

[GThomas]

Not likely that this would work..

And just the setup of such a.. thing..

Really, really hard time for grey cells.

I will be tinkering with "my" VU+ (FBC cluster as well) later- maybe today (unlikely) or tomorrow afternoon (more likely), I'll check what's possible.

I'm almost sure I've seen positioned settings available for some unicable stuff.

But I may be wrong.

My grey cells are having hard time as well recently.

[WanWizard]

Enigma needs to know what position the LNB can see, i.e. where the positioner has moved to. And that tuner setup option doesn't have the possibility to select an LNB type.

 

The only thing you can do is leave your existing legacy LNB where it is, connect that to one of the FBC inputs, and use it in legacy mode.

 

Having 8 tuners connected to a rotor LNB is imho a bit over the top anyway, given the fact you only have one position to look at. You can only connect one TV to the box, and planning recordings on a rotor setup will lead to very unexpected results (i.e. a random moving dish). 

[Erik Slagter]

It looks like OpenPli by itself supports these switches with only 2 sat positions. Confirmation on this, please

I assume you're talking about the built-in database of predefined switch-data. You're not required to use it. Choose "user defined", fill in all the data and you're good to go.

[Erik Slagter]

A theoretical question: If I have one Unicable LNB connected to one input of the FBC tuner and nothing connected to the other input, can I use all eight tuners?

How do I set up tuner B in such a scenario - loop through?

If you're using SCR, you mostly only need one input. Unless, as in my case, you're using two SCR switches, then you need both the inputs. AFAIK tuner A can only be linked to input A and tuner B can only be linked to input B (and nothing is connected there, to input A). The others can be linked to any input at will.

 

For SCR to work, you will have to setup loop throughs for all tuners, manually. If you don't, it won't work. There is no "auto SCR FBC" mode (and it's not even possible to make such thing).

[Erik Slagter]

As to the configuration, as far as I understood, you need to configure a user band per tuner, so each tuner can talk to the switch (and/or the LNB). If you have multiple positions, you need to define a user band per tuner for each of these postions (so SCR1-8 for position A, SCR9-17 for position B, etc). And you need to have programmed your environment to match this mapping.

This is only with SCR LNB's.

 

Using SCR switches, each tuner has exactly one user band. Commands are broadcasted over the cable (no user band is used for that) and the user band is used to send the selected transponder to the tuner. So eight tuners means eight user bands. If you have two switches and both are connected to the FBC complex, one has to assign one set of tuners to input A, and a set of tuners to input B. As both have separate cables, they have their own user bands, so you can have the same user band on both switches.

[Erik Slagter]

 

 

Are there already switches available for more than 2 positions? Cascading switches will quickly become a very expensive habbit...  
 
I'm planning to switch to Unicable/JESS as well, early next year, for 4 positions, so very interested in a cost-effective solution.

Unicable can address two positions. Technically it would be possible to cascade switches to allow for more positions, but I don't know if there is any one switch that supports such. JESS can address up to 16 positions (from the top of my head). Probably there won't be switches that actually can have 16 LNB's attached (= 64 cables....), but four positions is quite common and one can, with some models, cascade one or more other switches giving additional 4 positions per switch.
 
I didn't say it's cost effective though

Erik, can you please expand on how to use more than 2 positions? Hardware description followed by tuner configuration description please. Perhaps a diagram too. I have read post 136.

For that you need either switches than can select their user bands out of multiple sets (virtual positions) or use two (or more) cables.

 

In the first case, you make every switch use another set of user bands and combine the outputs into one cable.

 

In the second case, you use two cables and connect them to both inputs (if you have FBC).

[HWTest]

 

A theoretical question: If I have one Unicable LNB connected to one input of the FBC tuner and nothing connected to the other input, can I use all eight tuners?

How do I set up tuner B in such a scenario - loop through?

If you're using SCR, you mostly only need one input. Unless, as in my case, you're using two SCR switches, then you need both the inputs. AFAIK tuner A can only be linked to input A and tuner B can only be linked to input B (and nothing is connected there, to input A). The others can be linked to any input at will.

 

For SCR to work, you will have to setup loop throughs for all tuners, manually. If you don't, it won't work. There is no "auto SCR FBC" mode (and it's not even possible to make such thing).

 

 

OK, thank but I have additional questions:

 

1) If I connect only one input, I have 7 tuners available, correct?

 

2) I have two variants of the loop throughs setups

a) C loop through to A, D loop through to A, ... H loop through to A

C loop through to A, D loop through to C, ... H loop through to G

which is the correct one?

[WanWizard]

1. No, you have access to all 8. Erik says B will be looped to A if input 2 is not connected to anything.

2. You should leave it to automatic, they will be looped through either A of B automatically. Unless you have an SCR setup with a Unicable switch, in which case each tuner needs its own user band.

[HWTest]

So, if I'm understanding it correctly, if I have (only) one Unicable LNB connected to only one input (A), I set B loop through to A and leave the rest to automatic?

[WanWizard]

A Unicable LNB (or SCR LNB) requires userband definitions, every tuner needs to configured with it's own user band, and you need a Unicable LNB with support for as many user bands as you have tuners.

 

Looping through is a legacy LNB thing, in a Unicable setup the "full cable" isn't shared amongst tuners.

[GThomas]

So, if I'm understanding it correctly, if I have (only) one Unicable LNB connected to only one input (A), I set B loop through to A and leave the rest to automatic?

No.

 

If you use legacy LNB, THEN you set them on automatic

 

If you use unicable LNB, then you set:

 

tuner A (give it SCR1)

Tuner B- give it SCR2, loop trough(aka "connected to") to tuner A

Tuner C- give it SCR3, loop trough to tuner A

Tuner D- give it SCR4, loop trough to tuner A

and so on for all of them

[WanWizard]

That is how I understand it works too, yes.

[GThomas]

on top of that, if you set it this way, you can use input of tuner B as loop trough output, for example to another fbc tuner (of course with SCR values set not to clash with first one, for example SCR9,10,11,...15,16)

this way you dont have to use splitter that would to exactly same job.

 

 

 

trying:

 

conventional(splitter)

cable-------------------------splitter-----------------------splitter----------------------
                                 |                               |
                              unicable                        unicable
                                tuner                           tuner

B looped trough to A:

cable---------------------------                     -----------------------------------                     -----------------------------
                               |                    |                                  |                     |
                              input           input(output)                          input              input(output)
                              tuner               tuner                              tuner                  tuner
                                A                   B                                  A                      B
                                     FBC cluster 1                                           FBC cluster 2
                                 (ie: first receiver)                                    (ie: second receiver)
                                 B looped trough to A                                     B looped trough to A
used SCRs:                          1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8                                      9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16

Edited by WanWizard, 12 December 2018 - 00:08.
code block have a fixed font

[gorski]

Well, thanx guys, this above helps (at least to me, visually...) - it's ABC for lay people, baby, as in the 'advantage of Unicable' or difference to 'legacy' (multicabling) system...

 

Did I get it right(???), like so:

 

================1 satellite position=====================

 

- 1 Unicable LNB/one cable into the house only, running from one STB/"cluster" to the other, as described above.

 

A cable Q: can Unicable utilise 'fibre' cable for full results or just plain old coax? It seems that old coax can't handle all that demand from, say 16 tuners - because the signal deteriorate/gets weaker by the "end of the line"?

See, they say coax is enough: https://en.wikipedia...le_distribution

But here it says that's rather limited by comparison to fibre: https://techdifferen...xial-cable.html

In fact, the last link I put up here says that the signal has to be amplified or the last STBs won't get enough signal...

 

- No switches needed

 

- 1 cluster/receiver/STB (8 tuners usable only?) with B loopthrough/exiting cable to

 

- 2nd cluster/receiver/STB (another 8 tuners only?)

 

- Settings in E2 must use SCR options, as above - and all (16?) tuners can use the same Unicable LNB independently

(I presume the advantage is that one can use any TP available on that satellite position at the same time, no clashing?)?

- How many STBs/"clusters" can one connect this way - i.e. how many possible "undemanding users" (in terms of just 1 satellite position needed), before the signal (coax cable) starts deteriorating?

 

==================XY satellite positions==================

 

However...

 

What about X or even XY number of Unicable LNBs, so that each user/STB/"cluster" can use any TP on any satellite position (I have 12, for instance, i.e. for "demanding users" like me... ), without any problems in terms of clashing and/or signal deteriorating?

 

See, what confuses me are these: https://fernsehempfa...l-unicable-lnb/ - see the "Unicable" but also "legacy" at the same time, not to mention Unicable I and II (Jens, perhaps you need something like this for a motorised dish with extra capabilities?)...

 

Plain old coax cable or fibre needed?

 

Which special Unicable switches are needed? (Terribly expensive? DOes it pay, in relation to "legacy", say with T90 and QUAD or OCTA LNBs with legacy switches?)

 

Settings of switches/what kind of nifty cabling is needed?

 

Settings in E2?

 

Many thanx in advance!

 

EDIT

 

==================ACTUALLY===================

 

As I was trying to figure out various problems/limitations of this system, I read more (using an online translator) at the last link I put up here and it helps a great deal - to a lay person like me - to clear some confusion in the "area" (for instance, there are Unicable LNBs which also have "legacy" ports, so they would have more flexibility, in terms of connecting to an STB in an old, "classic" manner):

 

SCR/Einkabel/Unicable LNBs

Ein relativ moderner LNB-Typ ist der Unicable LNB, oder auch Einkabel-LNB genannt, bei dem es möglich ist, mehrere Receiver an nur einem Kabel zu betreiben. [ A relatively modern LNB type is the Unicable LNB, or single-cable LNB, where it is possible to operate multiple receivers on a single cable.] Unicable LNBs finden dann Verwendung, wenn die Koaxialverkabelung nicht verändert werden kann. [ Unicable LNBs are used when the coaxial cabling can not be changed.]

Die Funktionsweise eines Unicable LNBs [ The functionality of a Unicable LNB]

In der Grundfunktionalität unterscheidet sich ein Unicable LNB nicht von einem Standard-LNB. [ In the basic functionality, a Unicable LNB does not differ from a standard LNB.] Er empfängt die vier Frequenzbänder, setzt die Frequenz herunter und verstärkt das Signal. [ It receives the four frequency bands, lowers the frequency and amplifies the signal.] Darüber hinaus sorgt ein im Unicable-LNB integrierter Frequenzgenerator dafür, dass die Signale in eine spezielle User-Band-Frequenz gemischt werden. [ In addition, a frequency generator integrated in the Unicable LNB ensures that the signals are mixed into a special user band frequency.] Diese können von den einzelnen Receivern unterscheidbar und unabhängig voneinander verarbeitet werden. [ These can be processed by the individual receivers in a distinguishable and independent manner.] Dieser beschriebene Prozess wird mit Hilfe einer sogenannten SCR-Einheit (ausgeschrieben: Satellite Channel Router) innerhalb des Unicable LNB durchlaufen. [ This described process is run with the help of a so-called SCR unit (written out: Satellite Channel Router) within the Unicable LNB.]

 

 

Vereinfacht gesagt: Der Unicable LNB spaltet das empfangene Signal auf. [ Simply put, the Unicable LNB splits the received signal.] So können mehrere unabhängige und vollständige Signale in einem Koaxialkabel transportiert werden. [ Thus, several independent and complete signals can be transported in one coaxial cable.]

 

Kommunikation zwischen LNB und Receiver [ Communication between LNB and receiver]

Die Kommunikation über spezielle DiSEqC-Befehle seitens des Receivers zwischen dem Receiver und der Unicable LNB sind für die oben genannte Funktionsweise unabdingbar! [ The communication via special DiSEqC commands by the receiver between the receiver and the Unicable LNB are indispensable for the above-mentioned functionality!] Im Jahr 2004 wurde eine europäische Norm EN 50494) definiert, welches das erweiterte DiSEqC-Protokoll festlegt. [ In 2004, a European standard EN 50494 was defined, which defines the extended DiSEqC protocol.] Um ein Endgerät mit einem Unicable LNB zu betreiben, muss diese Norm bzw. das erweiterte Befehlsprotokoll unterstützt werden. [ To operate a terminal with a Unicable LNB, this standard or extended command protocol must be supported.] Im Handel sind diese Receiver oft mit dem Hinweis “SCR-Funktion” gekennzeichnet. [ In trade, these receivers are often marked with the note 'SCR function'.]

Für wen lohnt sich der Einsatz eines Unicable LNB? [ For whom is the use of a Unicable LNB worthwhile?]

Am häufigsten findet der Unicable LNB in der Aufrüstung eines vorhandenen Single-LNB (nur ein Kabel angeschlossen) zu einer Mehrteilnehmer-Anlage verwendung. [ Most commonly, the Unicable LNB finds use in upgrading an existing single-LNB (only one cable connected) to a multi-subscriber attachment.] Sie tauschen lediglich den LNB gegen einen Unicable LNB aus, somit bleibt die existierende Verkabelung unverändert. [ They only exchange the LNB for a Unicable LNB, so the existing cabling remains unchanged.] So können Sie ohne viel Aufwand einen vorhandenen, einfachen Receiver gegen einen Twin-Receiver tauschen oder weitere Receiver an der Ein-Kabel-Lösung einsetzen. [ This way, you can easily replace an existing, simple receiver with a twin receiver or use additional receivers on the single-cable solution.] Mit einem Verteiler lässt sich das Signal aufteilen, so können Sie bequem weitere Geräte anschließen. [ With a distributor, the signal can be split, so you can easily connect other devices.]

Aber auch bei Häusern, die bislang mit einem Kabelanschluss versehen waren, empfiehlt sich der Einsatz des Unicable Verfahrens. [ But even with houses that were previously provided with a cable connection, the use of the Unicable method is recommended.] Da beim klassischen Kabelanschluss die einzelnen Dosen in den Räumen nicht sternförmig sondern in einer Reihe angeordnet sind, gerät hier eine “gewöhnliche” Sat-Anlage schnell an ihre Grenzen. [ Since the classic cable connection, the individual doses in the rooms are not star-shaped but arranged in a row, here comes a 'normal' satellite system quickly to its limits.] Hier wäre eine direkte Verbindung von Receiver zum LNB notwendig. [ This would require a direct connection from receiver to LNB.] Im Unicable-Betrieb kann dieses Problem einfach umgangen werden, da in einem Kabel auf unterschiedlichen Frequenzbändern mehrere Receiver angesprochen werden können. [ In Unicable mode, this problem can be easily circumvented, since multiple receivers can be addressed in one cable on different frequency bands.]

 

Beachten Sie aber, dass je nach verwendetem Kabeltyp die Signalqualität eventuell nicht ausreichend ist, um an der letzten Dose den Receiver ausreichend zu versorgen. [ Note, however, that depending on the type of cable used, the signal quality may not be sufficient enough to power the receiver on the last box.] Achten Sie in diesem Zusammenhang auf die Dämpfung. [ Pay attention to the damping in this connection.] Diese wird in Summe zum einen durch die Kabellänge (Kabeldämpfung) und zum anderen durch die verwendeten Dosen (Durchgangsdämpfung) bestimmt. [ This is determined on the one hand by the cable length (cable damping) and on the other hand by the cans used (transmission damping).] Eventuell muss das Signal verstärkt werden, um das Signal in ausreichender Stärke (Qualität) an jedem Receiver zur Verfügung zu stellen. [ It may be necessary to amplify the signal in order to provide the signal in sufficient strength (quality) at each receiver.]

Legacy Anschlüsse – eine Erweiterung für Unicable LNB [ Legacy Connections - an extension for Unicable LNB]

Oftmals treffen Sie auf der Suche nach einem Unicable LNB auf Angebote, die über ein oder mehrere sogenannte Legacy-Anschlüsse (oder auch Ports) verfügen. [ Often, when looking for a Unicable LNB, you will find offers that have one or more legacy ports (or ports).] Das sind Anschlüsse für einen Receiver in der klassischen Weise. [ These are connections for a receiver in the classic way.] An einem Legacy Port können Sie also nur ein Endgerät benutzen. [ So on a legacy port you can only use one device.] Mit dieser Erweiterung erhalten Sie einen noch flexibleren Unicable LNB. [ With this extension, you get an even more flexible Unicable LNB.] Zusätzlich zum Betrieb von mehreren Receiver über ein Kabel, können optional noch weitere Empfänger angeschlossen werden. [ In addition to the operation of several receivers via a cable, additional receivers can optionally be connected.] Der Begriff Legacy kommt aus der Informatik und IT-Technik und beschreibt ein Altsystem bzw. ein etabliertes Verfahren. [ The term legacy comes from computer science and IT technology and describes a legacy system or an established process.] In unserem spezifischen Fall den alten, klassischen LNB-Anschluss. [ In our specific case, the old, classic LNB connector.]

Verwendung von Unicable Multischaltern [ Use of Unicable multiswitches]

Sie können zusätzlich zur oben beschriebenen Vorgehensweise einen Unicable Multischalter einsetzen. [ You can use a Unicable multiswitch in addition to the procedure described above.] Es handelt sich dabei um die Verteilung der Sat-Signale (klassische Multiswitch-Funktionalität), jedoch mit dem Unterschied, dass der Unicable Standard verwendet. [ This is the distribution of the satellite signals (classic multiswitch functionality), but with the difference that uses the Unicable standard.]

[gorski]

You know, the more I think about it the less I think of it as "advantageous", in relation to "multicable", old, legacy solutions.

 

Because, at the end of the day, with the "unicable" solution one must run a cable through the house anyway.

 

And I run only 4 cables (QUAD LNBs with xin1 switches, you see) into the house to 3 or 4 different places and it's actually more elegant, not having to run this loooooong, single unicable internally, drilling through the walls anyway.

 

With the old mutlicabling system you also drill a single hole from the roof and you don't really see it, it's simple and straight forward. From the roof into a room, period.

 

Internally, running unicable along skirting boards, through the walls, under doors etc. can actually be LESS elegant, efficient etc.

 

Only in GThomas' situation, where one must connect just one STB with FBC tuner and one already has LAN cabling throughout the house, do I see an advantage, PROVIDED streaming to all the devices at the same time is not a problem, technically speaking, i.e. UNLESS streaming limitations of the server box might be a problem.

 

In other cases I can foresee - not so much... "Old" legacy equipment is also considerably cheaper, from what I can see.

 

At least to us, more demanding old farts, this might be something we would prefer, if not living in communal dwellings with silly limitations imposed by "house owners"...