270 replies to this topic

[Robinson]

XoXo_, I'm afraid that's not it. If I change my coordinates, the dish will perhaps improve for one or two satellite positions but will worsen for most of the others.

 

The point is that the rotor goes too much to the west and too much to the east. By about 10%, so the further it goes the error is bigger. My zero reference is about 21.5E so it is not too much of a problem for Hot Bird for me but it becomes a real problem for satellites further towards the west and all satellites further than 28.E to the east.

Can CALIBRATE or CALCULATE functions be of any help to be able to correct the 10% error on the rotor? If so, how? Anyone have an idea on how to correct the error using PositionerSetup or how to repair the rotor?

[Rob van der Does]

XoXo_, I'm afraid that's not it. If I change my coordinates, the dish will perhaps improve for one or two satellite positions but will worsen for most of the others.
 
The point is that the rotor goes too much to the west and too much to the east. By about 10%, so the further it goes the error is bigger.

That suggests that the location you have entered is far too south.
Where are you located and what did you enter in latitude?

[Robinson]

SatKiekerd, my latitude is about 49N and this is what I entered in the menu.

I have now disassembled my system and the observations I have made were based just on the rotor itself which has a scale at the bottom. Maybe I just panicked and I should not have followed this scale?

As my zero position is 21.5E and I want to go do 0.8W, I assume that the rotor should turn by 22.3 degrees west and this is where it should be on the scale. But in fact it is somewhere at 25 west of zero reference.

Should I just disregard the scale? I don't think so because I think (now I'm not sure of anything) it was OK in the past.

So if I go to 27.5W, the scale should show 49 degrees west (21.5+27.5). Am I wrong? Is the scale correct only for a certain latitude?

[Robinson]

Just to be clear, I am talking about this scale (east - west).

 

Attached Files

•  scale.jpg   13.22KB   50 downloads

[Rob van der Does]

But that are true degrees (of the dish related to the pole), not the azimuth of the satellite.

Edited by SatKiekerd, 28 September 2013 - 17:42.

[Robinson]

OK, so it was a false alarm.

Thanks SatKiekerd for putting my mind at ease.

[Huevos]

For example, when I want to move it by 25 deg, it moves about 27-28 deg.

If you lived in the centre of the planet all the satellites would be equal distance from you and the movement of the motor spindle would correspond exactly with the positions of the satellites. But the reality is you live on the planet's surface and this means you are not at the dead centre of the circle that the satellites are positioned around. This translates into the motor needing to be turned 6 or 7º more at the ends of the arc than the geocentric position of the satellites.

Edited by Huevos, 29 September 2013 - 12:41.

[Robinson]

If you lived in the centre of the planet all the satellites would be equal distance from you and the movement of the motor spindle would correspond exactly with the positions of the satellites. But the reality is you live on the planet's surface and this means you are not at the dead centre of the circle that the satellites are positioned around. This translates into the motor needing to be turned 6 or 7º more at the ends of the arc than the geocentric position of the satellites.

 

Thanks Huevos.

One additional question regarding WEST and EAST degrees on the rotor not corresponding to the real movement of the dish.

Does it differ depending on the latitude you live in? Eg at the equatior the difference is smaller or bigger than in Sweden?

[mirakels]

I guess the further you are from the satellites, the difference will be less. So in sweden it is smaller than on the equator.

 

Although not on motorised setups, this page may help in explaining it a little bit (or even a big bit : http://activefrance....Shed/page4.html

[Huevos]

If you lived in the centre of the planet all the satellites would be equal distance from you and the movement of the motor spindle would correspond exactly with the positions of the satellites. But the reality is you live on the planet's surface and this means you are not at the dead centre of the circle that the satellites are positioned around. This translates into the motor needing to be turned 6 or 7º more at the ends of the arc than the geocentric position of the satellites.

 

Thanks Huevos.

One additional question regarding WEST and EAST degrees on the rotor not corresponding to the real movement of the dish.

Does it differ depending on the latitude you live in? Eg at the equatior the difference is smaller or bigger than in Sweden?

At the equator you are further forward so the effect is more pronounced. If you are at 60ºN and you want to receive a satellite 75º east or west of your location you need to turn the motor 79.25º. If you were at the equator you would need to turn the motor  83.65º.

Edited by Huevos, 26 October 2013 - 20:09.

[Robinson]

Thank you, mirakels and Huevos.

[Robinson]

Guys, I understand it is not possible to override USALS just for certain sateliite positions?

I either use USALS for all or not at all?

Let me just explain why I would need to do that. I have been fiddling with my setup but still cannot get it 100% right, so I would like to fine-tune it manually for some satellites in the east (42E, 45E, 68E, etc.). The rest of the arch seems to be about right. It is just those satellites furthest to the east that I do not get right. My rotor just goes a little bit too far east and I would need to set these satellites manually.

[Huevos]

Guys, I understand it is not possible to override USALS just for certain sateliite positions?

Just set the tuner to advanced. DiSEqC 1.2. LNB1. Set all sats that work fine to USALS, and any that don't work so well assign a position. Once you set a position number, use positioner setup to perfect the position and save it.

Edited by Huevos, 23 November 2013 - 00:01.

[Robinson]

At the equator you are further forward so the effect is more pronounced. If you are at 60ºN and you want to receive a satellite 75º east or west of your location you need to turn the motor 79.25º. If you were at the equator you would need to turn the motor  83.65º.

 

Do you have a tool that could calculate the ratio of how the effect is pronounced at different latitudes?

I understand that at the equator, you need to go 83.65/75=1.1153 deg for each degree on the rotor scale.

At the 60N the difference is less pronounced: 79.25/75=1.0567 deg for each degree on the rotor scale.

How is it for example at 30N, at 50N?

[Huevos]

30N = 82.5º
50N = 80.5º

 

There's a calculator at http://www.satsig.net/sf.htm

[Robinson]

Guys, I understand it is not possible to override USALS just for certain sateliite positions?

Just set the tuner to advanced. DiSEqC 1.2. LNB1. Set all sats that work fine to USALS, and any that don't work so well assign a position. Once you set a position number, use positioner setup to perfect the position and save it.

 

Do you mean that it is necessary to go through the menu for all satellites (see the screenshot) and for each one choose either YES or NO (use USALS for this sat) and where I chose YES, I need to assign a number, 001, 002, 003 etc.? All the other satellites that can use USALS I just set this option to YES?

By the way, what is this LNB option directly under "Satellite" in this screenshot?

Attached Files

•  3a.jpg   38.77KB   22 downloads

[Huevos]

LNB is one physical LNB. So if you have a motorized dish with one LNB just set up every satellite as LNB 1. And with the latest changes you can setup a large number of satellites as a block (USALS) and then just fill in the gaps with DiSEqC 1.2 stored positions.

[Robinson]

And with the latest changes you can setup a large number of satellites as a block (USALS) and then just fill in the gaps with DiSEqC 1.2 stored positions.

 

Thanks.

I still use Enigma from 11 May 2014. Does it include the latest changes you are talking about?

Are they perhaps those "All satellites (USALS)" options?

I get 4 such options:

All satellites 1 - LNB 65

All satellites 2 - LNB 66

All satellites 3 - LNB 67

All satellites 4 - LNB 68

Are these the 4 different blocks you mentioned? How to use them? I mean how to assign different satellites to these 4 different blocks?

Or perhaps is it something else you are talking about?

[gerard0610]

11May is oké. However it is always good/belter  to use the actual software

 

If you are able to read the Dutch language then look here: http://www.detranspo...link_2014_5.pdf   see page 20 "Efficiënt gebruik van USALS".

Edited by gerard0610, 11 August 2014 - 10:52.

[Huevos]

And with the latest changes you can setup a large number of satellites as a block (USALS) and then just fill in the gaps with DiSEqC 1.2 stored positions.

 

Thanks.

I still use Enigma from 11 May 2014. Does it include the latest changes you are talking about?

Are they perhaps those "All satellites (USALS)" options?

I get 4 such options:

All satellites 1 - LNB 65

All satellites 2 - LNB 66

All satellites 3 - LNB 67

All satellites 4 - LNB 68

Are these the 4 different blocks you mentioned? How to use them? I mean how to assign different satellites to these 4 different blocks?

Or perhaps is it something else you are talking about?

No it is not 'All satellites (USALS)' it is 'Selecting satellites (USALS)'. They are very different. The first is just a catch-all for any satellites that are not configured. The second is a user defined group of satellites that the user selects.