83 replies to this topic

[Ratatosk]

Hello!

I have a question, or perhaps two (entirely unrelated), for anybody with knowledge to answer.

 

About to buy my very first DVB box, I have until now, believe it or not, been basically content with the analog cable-TV I had where I previously lived. (I was using a Danish-made box, KiSS DP-558, for EPG and recordings etc. - with some closed-source system on board, but running on Linux and at least allowing ftp and telnet access.) Now finally, however, the move to a new apartment has forced me to face the 21st century.

 

My basic requirements:

1. (Obviously) The box has to actually work where I (now) live. Meaning, for me, DVB-C tuner(s) and a well-working card reader for a Conax CAS5, to be run at 3.5795 MHz, I believe. (It is, from what I understand, what my TV company, Swedish Tele2, is using.) I also want (to install) a hard drive in it.
    
2. For the sake of principles, if nothing else, I'd also like as free and open a box as possible, meaning one from a manufacturer that plays well with the open-source community.

________________________________________

 

Again, I am a complete newcomer to free (/“libre”) open source DVB receivers. Until a few months ago, I had heard about something called Dreambox only. Having now done some basic research, it seems that the Dreambox may have been the only truly free and open DVB box, as delivered, between 2003 (or December 2002) and 2008 sometime. But, since October 2011, Dreamboxes apparently aren't free or open at all anymore. So Dreambox is out. Instead, from what I understand, there are now primarily two or three brand names to choose from: Korean Xtrend, Korean Vu+, and possibly Hong Kong-made Coolstream.

 

Yes, I am aware that the last of these, Coolstream, isn't supported by PLi. I have now learned the names Enigma (on which OpenPLi is based) and Neutrino (used in Coolstream) and read up a little on their history too. Not that I am still sure about the relative merits of Neutrino or Enigma, but I've learned enough to know that both are GPL'ed, open and free (regardless of whatever Dream Multimedia chooses to call their proprietary and closed software), and it seems to me that Coolstream should probably be mentioned anyway.

 

Perhaps the full coverage of all this, and the grand history of open DVB boxes, is better left to another thread, though. Xtrend, in this respect, should in any case be a very good choice, as far as I can glean from other threads in this forum, which is why I am leaning towards Xtrend in the first place. (Right?)

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So, I had just about decided to go with an Xtrend box (9500 or 6500, not sure which) when I saw some talk about problems with Xtrend card readers or the drivers for them.

 

First, in some threads dealing with new drivers in February 2012 (in this forum, and another one) there is mention of a failure to properly lock access to a card reader, while one process is accessing it, so as to prevent another process from simultaneously accessing the same device (which would cause a program crash). Not that I am sure how much of a concern this was or is, if it's still not solved. The case specifically mentioned is when two softcams, OSCam and CCCam, are simultaneously running, but I am not entirely sure what the point of that would be. (Since OSCam apparently is open source while CCCam is not, I am pretty sure OSCam is what I will want.)

 

The other, perhaps more serious, problem, however, is (/was?) an inability of Xtrend card readers to run at any other frequency than 6 or 5 MHz. This sounds really worrying to me, as, again, I believe my card is meant to be run at a much lower frequency. The problem is mentioned in this German thread, dealing with crashes presumably caused by this (?). On page 6, it is said that some kind of fix was created and implemented in OpenPLi 3, in July 2012.

 

So will it now be safe to put my 3.5795 MHz Conax card in the internal reader of an Xtrend machine?

 

Or will I be better off with a VU+ machine? (or Coolstream or something else?)

________________________________________

 

(And apologies for this post being a bit lengthy. It is more or less a summary of what I've got after trying to research the matter as far as I could on my own, and I come to you for answers only when no longer able to find them myself.) 

[WanWizard]

Just to be complete:

 

There is Enigma (also referred to as Enigma1), which was a direct descendant of the old german DBoxII project, with only support for single tuner receivers, and quite limited in functionality (check the specs of a DM500 to see why). And there is Enigma2, which was written from scratch to support multi-tuner systems and HD.

 

Neutrino is also a descendant of the DBoxII project, still building on the old codebase, but from the looks of it coolstream has now added dual tuner support and HD support.

 

Given the limited functionality of the old codebase, I think it's important to compare Enigma2 to Neutrino HD before you make a descision.

[gorski]

Plus, we shall see what comes out of XBMC4STB project (http://www.prismcube.com/), also twin tuner and HD...

[mamamia]

One short note:
http://openpli.org/wiki/comparison

In my opinion rather go for the new generation of Broadcom chips. Compare vu+ Solo2 & Duo2 to older hardware. 1300mhz, LAN, pip hd, transcoding possibilities and so on.

Edited by mamamia, 24 November 2013 - 09:11.

[pieterg]

Conax cards can run on 5MHz, being a class A (5V) card, it should support frequencies in the range of 1-5MHz according to ISO7816-3.

So you should not worry about destroying your card.

[Pr2]

Do go for prismcube it doesn't have pluggable tuners and the current version is only DVB-S2 while you are looking for DVB-C tuners.

[pop_eye]

Just to be complete:

 

Neutrino is also a descendant of the DBoxII project, still building on the old codebase, but from the looks of it coolstream has now added dual tuner support and HD support.

 

Given the limited functionality of the old codebase, I think it's important to compare Enigma2 to Neutrino HD before you make a descision.

Just to be more complete:

 

Neutrino HD is not using a dual tuner frontend. It is a twin tuner frontend.

In this case enigma2 is more superior, is the same reason why enigma1 has never been improved to use dual tuner support.

Edited by pop_eye, 26 November 2013 - 22:31.

[pop_eye]

You can see the difference from the following:

 

https://www.youtube....sR1MpRb0-e4#t=3

[gorski]

Do go for prismcube it doesn't have pluggable tuners and the current version is only DVB-S2 while you are looking for DVB-C tuners.

 

No need to let your dark side take over so overtly, Sir...

 

If one only wishes to deploy one's little grey cells instead, one can easily see that the post I made had to do with the general issues raised, rather than it being a specific recommendation...

[pop_eye]

No need to let your dark side take over so overtly, Sir...

 

If one only wishes to deploy one's little grey cells instead, one can easily see that the post I made had to do with the general issues raised, rather than it being a specific recommendation...

 

What have you been smoking , again ?    Have you actually read the first posting completely ?

Needles to say quite a few specific points were made, someone with knowledge would answer on a concise way. (& accurate)

You don`t get this type of postings everyday on a forum...BTW

 

My basic requirements:

(Obviously) The box has to actually work where I (now) live. Meaning, for me, DVB-C tuner(s) and a well-working card reader for a Conax CAS5, to be run at 3.5795 MHz, I believe. (It is, from what I understand, what my TV company, Swedish Tele2, is using.) I also want (to install) a hard drive in it.

peace !

Edited by pop_eye, 26 November 2013 - 22:44.

[WanWizard]

Neutrino HD is not using a dual tuner frontend. It is a twin tuner frontend.

 

What is the difference between "dual" and "twin"? In both cases it describes two tuners?

[gorski]

WW, I think the expressions we use in EU is combo (only subsequent usage of both tuners is possible) and twin (simultaneous usage of both tuners is possible)... Pop_eye likes to jump the gun a bit...

 

Poppppyyyy, those seeds are going to yer head, m8y... I merely added to the post above mine, that's all... You know, not good to take out of context...

[WanWizard]

Are you trying to say that it has two tuners, but you can only use one at the time? What's the use of that?

[gorski]

If they are different, then it's OK (combo)... kinda... Just one box for different stuff...

 

AZbug HD old story, btw... Advertised and promised one thing (twin), delivered another (combo)... Yayks!

[WanWizard]

I still don't get the difference.

[gorski]

Combo is for STBs incapable of using two tuners at the same time (say watching and recording). Those boxes save on space, as you have 1 STB for, say, cable and sat TV.

 

Twin tuner STB can use both tuners at the same time, either for PiP from different TPs/satellites or for watching something and recording at least one more channel, using the other tuner, from a different TP/satellite to the one you are watching.

[Pale-Rider]

Twin Tuner receivers.

 

These include such receivers as the Vu+ Duo, Solo2, Xtrend 9x00 etc etc.

you have two TWIN tuners of the same type ie DVB-S2, this allows you to use both tuners at the same for recordinsg and live viewing etc.

 

Dual Tuner Receivers.

 

These include some of the GigaBlue models where you have two tuners of different types.

For example you may have a DVB-S2 tuner and a DVB-C/T tuner but you cant use them all at the same time, your limited to using either the DVB-S2 or the DVB-C/T tuner not both at the same time.

Edited by pheonix-vix, 26 November 2013 - 23:58.

[pop_eye]

Neutrino HD is not using a dual tuner frontend. It is a twin tuner frontend.

 

What is the difference between "dual" and "twin"? In both cases it describes two tuners?

IMO dual means exactly what enigma2 is providing - the usage of nim sockets and to establish a priority and managing the HW/USB tuners.

On Neutrino czap does not have such priority setup in place, and does not know how to distinguish between nims without manual intervention.

I have thought the youtube video would explain better then a nice twist of words I see all are posted here.

Twin is exactly what you hinted @ posting #13

 

What is the real usage ? Maybe used and limited for recording channels on the same TP, and switch capability between sat, cable or terestrial depending on

the tuners which are provided by manufacturer.

Let alone the complete nonsense other heads in this hobby...some of them related to clone or "copy cat" hardware are trying to portray here.

Edited by pop_eye, 27 November 2013 - 04:27.

[pop_eye]

combo ? Is that for a burger ? They are probably selling "a combo" because is on "a special offer"

 

combo or twin what is the difference ?

[gorski]

Learn to read, Poppy...