250 replies to this topic

[Erik Slagter]

 

Yes, the DiSEqC option is still available when selecting a JESS switch... but then, should I enable it even if I have only 1 sat position and no DiSEqC switch?

 

Because in my tests (performed without the DiSEqC option activated) I was able to use only the first 2 JESS/EN50607 user bands of my multiswitch...

Sounds like a the switch is operating in a non standard way. Lots of conventional multiswitches with this issue.

Ugly.

 

Unicable and JESS both explicitly FORBID the use of DiSEqC on the same cable. So if some switch or LNB requires it, it's not standards-adhering.

 

I must say, I haven't spend a second on Unicable / DiSEqC interoperability, exactly for that reason. Yes, you can choose DiSEqC in the tuner settings, when it's Unicable enabled, but I really don't know if it actually works (or did in the past). It's a monstrosity, it's "prone to error" at the very least.

 

A Unicable switch (or JESS) should behave like a multiswitch and should need no additional control besides Unicable or JESS commands (like voltage, tone, tone bursts or DiSEqC) to operate.

[Eragon]

Well, I have only one dCSS multiswitch: 9732 by Unitron-Johansson (approved by Sky UK/DE/IT), supporting concurrent EN50494/EN50607 standards, 16 user bands (see attached PDF for the specifications)

Only 1 satellite (Hotbird 13.0), only 1 direct cable from the multiswitch to my test receiver Vu+ Duo2 (dual DVB-S2 tuner, cable physically connected to Tuner A)

 

I'm asking about DiSEqC because of the following statement present in the multiswitch specifications:

 

 

 

Installation Mode

The device starts up in installation mode to check the equipment functionality and the correct
installation. In this mode the automatic gain control is frozen (commands for activating the
AGC are required). The multiswitch switches to SCR/CSS mode upon receiving a DiSEqC
message.
 

To activate one or more of the UBs a proper DiSEqC message should be received.

The installation mode starts up with the following 2 transponders active (both output signals
are having a fixed gain):
  Transponder 58 (Frequency: 11880 Vertical) placed in output IF 1281.
  Transponder 101 (Frequency: 12731 Horizontal) placed in output IF 2131.

 

 

Similarly, the following is stated in the user guide of another Sky compatible dCSS multiswitch series: TRIAX TMDS 5x C (Digital SCR Multiswitch for SkyQ) (see attached PDF)

 

 

When an SCR compatible Set Top Box is connected and set in ‘SCR Mode’, up to
16 User Channel Bands can be generated and can be tuned independently of
each other to look at any LNB input and any transponder frequency on that input.
The TMDS 5x C reacts on the Sky, CLC TS50607 and EN50494 CENELEC-
standards. Using DiSEqC commands the set top box automatically transmits the
desired data for the LNB input and frequency to be selected.

Attached Files

•  9732 Manual.pdf   340.71KB   3 downloads
•  TMDS 54C User Guide (Rev 5).pdf   703.64KB   2 downloads

Edited by Eragon, 14 December 2016 - 16:17.

[littlesat]

In fact the JESS/UNICABLE commands are DiseqC commands....

[Rob van der Does]

It's an extended DiSEqC protocol; i.e. if hardware is DiSEqC-capable the (amended) firmware should be able to control it.

[Rob van der Does]

 

 

Yep... we tested on JESS switches... but mine did not have >6 scrs as I tested with the JP1702-6A. ...

But <6SCR sounds like Unicable I....
I looked at the catalogue at http://www.jultec.de/products.html but I can't find the type you mentioned.

 

That's what we call "spuit 11" here. Yes, this type of switch reallye exists, yes we have it and yes it does have a JESS interface (beside also the Unicable legacy compatibility). It needs to have JESS support because it can support four positions. System is like this: 17 is 17 inputs (4*4+1), 2 outputs (independent, so every user band is used twice), 6 user bands. Nothing weird.

 

Nope, not Spuit 11; the context suggested it. And I mentioned I couldn't find the named switch, so I couldn't verify it. A link would be appreciated.

[Eragon]

That's what we call "spuit 11" here. Yes, this type of switch reallye exists, yes we have it and yes it does have a JESS interface (beside also the Unicable legacy compatibility). It needs to have JESS support because it can support four positions. System is like this: 17 is 17 inputs (4*4+1), 2 outputs (independent, so every user band is used twice), 6 user bands. Nothing weird.

 

 

It's likely this Jultec multiswitch you're using:

 

http://www.jultec.de/JPS1702-6.html

 

[Erik Slagter]

Yes, that's it. No vapourware

 

Eragon, let me have this straight, are you trying to use two switches on one cable?

[Eragon]

My installation:

 

LNB Quattro -> dCSS multiswitch Unitron-Johansson 9732 --> direct sat cable --> Tuner A of my Vu+ Duo2 (running yesterday OpenPLi image)

 

Nothing else in between.

[Erik Slagter]

In fact the JESS/UNICABLE commands are DiseqC commands....

 

It's an extended DiSEqC protocol; i.e. if hardware is DiSEqC-capable the (amended) firmware should be able to control it.

 

Wrong and wrong.

 

The procotol uses the same timings and cable level specifications, but that's as far as it goes. The commands can be sent by the already available DiSEqC control hardware in the tuner, but they're not recognised by DiSEqC devices because they're sent while the voltage is "high" (which is illegal for DiSEqC) and also the necessary "framing" bits are not conforming to DiSEqC. The commands Unicable use do more or less resemble DiSEqC command's (but are not compatible), the commands from the JESS set are completely new and different.

 

Anyway, as I said before, it's explicitly forbidden by both standards to use any sort of DiSEqC signalling on the same cable, in any way.

[Erik Slagter]

My installation:

 

LNB Quattro -> dCSS multiswitch Unitron-Johansson 9732 --> direct sat cable --> Tuner A of my Vu+ Duo2 (running yesterday OpenPLi image)

 

Nothing else in between.

 

Ok, so no loop-throughs then?

 

Also, that means your VU+Duo2 is only a single tuner client, and uses one user band. How many other clients (tuners) are connected and which user band do they use (number and frequency)? How is the cable physically distributed? If you connect more then one physical tuner, you need to either connect them in loop-through configuration (if the receiver supports that) or you need to separate all tuners using splitters that block the DC component, otherwise it won't work anyway.

[Rob van der Does]

 

In fact the JESS/UNICABLE commands are DiseqC commands....

 

It's an extended DiSEqC protocol; i.e. if hardware is DiSEqC-capable the (amended) firmware should be able to control it.

 

Wrong and wrong.

 

The procotol uses the same timings and cable level specifications, but that's as far as it goes. The commands can be sent by the already available DiSEqC control hardware in the tuner, but they're not recognised by DiSEqC devices because they're sent while the voltage is "high" (which is illegal for DiSEqC) and also the necessary "framing" bits are not conforming to DiSEqC. The commands Unicable use do more or less resemble DiSEqC command's (but are not compatible), the commands from the JESS set are completely new and different.

 

Anyway, as I said before, it's explicitly forbidden by both standards to use any sort of DiSEqC signalling on the same cable, in any way.

 

So indeed, as I said: "if hardware is DiSEqC-capable the (amended) firmware should be able to control it.". Nothing wrong with that.

[WanWizard]

The problem might by the difference between the EN50607/JESS standard and the "Sky standard". The docs also show that depending on the "standard mode" the switch operates in, other user bands with other frequencies are used.

 

Looks like another ploy by SKY to make something that was standard propietary to force users to use only their box.

 

I've already started an action towards the manufacturers to get our hands on the "SKY standard" docs...

[Erik Slagter]

@Rob More or less, not 100%. I can imagine a DiSEqC hardware implementation that cannot be used to generate Unicable or JESS commands (e.g. because it can't send them with voltage being high, for instance). But yes, that's besides the point.

[Rob van der Does]

@Rob More or less, not 100%. I can imagine a DiSEqC hardware implementation that cannot be used to generate Unicable or JESS commands (e.g. because it can't send them with voltage being high, for instance). But yes, that's besides the point.

Unlikely; that would imply that JESS would require dedicated hardware, which is not the case (or better said: that should not be the case). The idea is that every satreceiver manufacturer is able to implement the JESS protocol by means of a firmware upgrade, not by a hardware upgrade (just as is the case with the Unicable (I) protocol).

[Eragon]

 

My installation:

 

LNB Quattro -> dCSS multiswitch Unitron-Johansson 9732 --> direct sat cable --> Tuner A of my Vu+ Duo2 (running yesterday OpenPLi image)

 

Nothing else in between.

 

Ok, so no loop-throughs then?

 

Also, that means your VU+Duo2 is only a single tuner client, and uses one user band. How many other clients (tuners) are connected and which user band do they use (number and frequency)? How is the cable physically distributed? If you connect more then one physical tuner, you need to either connect them in loop-through configuration (if the receiver supports that) or you need to separate all tuners using splitters that block the DC component, otherwise it won't work anyway.

 

 

Well, my Duo2 as a dual DVB-S2 tuner, tuner B is set to Connect to A.

So I'm assigning 2 user bands.

No splitters, no switches, no other receivers on the same cable.

The dCSS multiswitch has 2 independent outputs (16 user band each), one output is completely dedicated to the Vu+ Duo2, and all the 16 user bands are available to the receiver.

 

If I choose to use only 2 of the 4 compatible EN50494 user bands, i can freely assign 2 different of them to the 2 tuners, in any possible combination and ordering, and both tuners work.

 

When choosing to use 2 of the 12 EN50607 user bands to be assigned to the 2 tuners, the results are as I've previously posted here:

http://forums.openpl...ndpost&p=629296

[littlesat]

Can huevos post a log here when he uses scr>8?

[Erik Slagter]

Well, my Duo2 as a dual DVB-S2 tuner, tuner B is set to Connect to A.
So I'm assigning 2 user bands.
No splitters, no switches, no other receivers on the same cable.
The dCSS multiswitch has 2 independent outputs (16 user band each), one output is completely dedicated to the Vu+ Duo2, and all the 16 user bands are available to the receiver.
&nbsp;
If I choose to use only 2 of the 4 compatible EN50494 user bands, i can freely assign 2 different of them to the 2 tuners, in any possible combination and ordering, and both tuners work.
&nbsp;
When choosing to use 2 of the 12 EN50607 user bands to be assigned to the 2 tuners, the results are as I've previously posted here:
http://forums.openpl...st&#38;p=629296

That would suggest that the wrong protocol is used. JESS switches should be backward compatible and my experience with the Jultec switch is that you can even mix Unicable and JESS commands even from the same tuner (within the limits of Unicable, of course).

It looks like your switch is strict in how each user band must be addressed.

How did you configure your tuner in the configuration that did not work? Did you explicitly choose JESS as the protocol, did you check the position parameter, what User Band number did you use (because that must match to what the switch expects), etc.

[Huevos]

&nbsp;

Can huevos post a log here when he uses scr&gt;8?

&nbsp;

Littlesat, how do I get a debug log from OpenPLi. Tried in console mode but there is very little output.

[athoik]

Try:

init 4 
export ENIGMA_DEBUG_LVL=5 
enigma2

[Rob van der Does]

ENIGMA_DEBUG_LVL=4 enigma2