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[WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin


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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #181 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 15:44

I agree there should be backward compatability, so i try always to keep that in mind.
Even i try to keep it compatible with more than one distro (if anyway is needed something special). But it will be great if special things are at minimum in my opinion.

 

Like I wrote, I don't have a problem with that, I have a problem with the way it is done.
 

From an architecture and design point of view, I can not fathom why someone would be against adding more renderers / converters, but at the same time for hacking more stuff into the main code, increasing the "bad design" problem.


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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #182 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 15:44

@WanWizard
As you can see the latest PRs are without movie selection stuff and the new/added things can be used or not by the skinners.
About not put skin stuff in system directories.... Well that is not possible in enigma2 since you cant put renderers or converters in skin directory.
Besides most systems offers to skinners framework that they can use in the skins. Base framework is usualy limited but at least it provides base possibilities. I think current enigma2 base skinning possibilities are too limited.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #183 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 15:46

About not put skin stuff in system directories.... Well that is not possible in enigma2 since you cant put renderers or converters in skin directory

 

And? Since when are problems no longer reason for solving them?

 

If your car drives bad with square wheels, you don't put a stronger engine in it, you replace the wheels by round ones..


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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #184 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 15:48

Besides most systems offers to skinners framework that they can use in the skins. Base framework is usualy limited but at least it provides base possibilities. I think current enigma2 base skinning possibilities are too limited.

 

I agree with that.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #185 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 15:51


About not put skin stuff in system directories.... Well that is not possible in enigma2 since you cant put renderers or converters in skin directory


And? Since when are problems no longer reason for solving them?

If your car drives bad with square wheels, you don't put a stronger engine in it, you replace the wheels by round ones..

I didnt said not trying to fix it. But that needs much more work due to the way it is done now. So for now we are stuck with what we have. Thats why i am trying to extend it to be a bit better.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #186 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 16:25

Always the same story.

 

There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it wrong...


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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #187 littlesat

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 16:33

I agree,,, that is why we're prefer to think extra before adding additional spaghetti and sour kraut in our code...


There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it wrong...


Edited by littlesat, 18 October 2023 - 16:34.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #188 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 16:42

I love sauerkraut... :)


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #189 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 17:01

Always the same story.

There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it wrong...


Well that is point of view more or less. You may think is wrong others may think is right....
Here we are talking about skinning and if somebody have to wait till someone else have time or knowledge to implement things "right", he may never release his skin...

Thats why i will propose all my changes to current functionality of enigma2 skinning engine and when there is time things to be redone in right way will change it. But i doubt that will be in near future since everybody talking what is right but nobody really do it including you. ;)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #190 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 17:15

If you have the skills to make changes to Enigma's internals, you also have the skills to propose a proper solution.

 

So I find this a non-argument. It is just for you the easiest way out, at this moment in time. Without taking the future consequences into account.

 

Enigma is the mess it is, because everyone always takes the easy way out. Making new things that interest a developer personally take precedence over maintenance and gettting rid of technical debt, which is boring and not visible to anyone. Which is the kiss of death for most open source projects...


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #191 Taapat

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 17:18

If we go back to changes in components, there are two things I would change if I wanted to use it:
1. As I already wrote here https://github.com/O...igma2/pull/3793 change the names of several types from uppercase to camelcase so that they are the same as the names when specifying only one type.
2. Remove all spaces using the separator symbol. If I wanted to use one space as a separator, it is now impossible.
If you need to specify a symbol with spaces on both sides, why can't it be specified in the separator symbol?


Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #192 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 17:29

@Taapat

1. Yes i have already answered that this can be done. I have no problem with it

2. Ok. You have a point. I can change that as well

@littlesat what you think about it since you are the one usualy merge that changes?

@WanWizard is not a matter of no interest. Its mostly a matter of time. We all have other "normal" work.

Edited by DimitarCC, 18 October 2023 - 17:31.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #193 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 17:55

It all remains a design that promotes hardcoded fixed functionality, which severly limits its use.

 

The data passed to the skin should be the raw data, and any formatting, transforming and manipulation should happen in the skin. This way you can for example create the movie selection title line like so

<element type="language" name="Recorded files..." />
<element type="movielist" name="currentPath" modifiers="basename|format:' * %s * '" />
<element type="movielist" name="freeSpaceBytes" data="currentPath" modifiers="valueToGB|format:'%d GB'" />
<element type="movielist" name="freeSpacePercentage" data="currentPath" modifiers="format:' (%d%%) '" />
<element type="language" name="free disk space" />

where "lang" returns a translated language string, "name" a valid defined in the API, "data" in case the API needs input to detemine which value to return, and modifiers (python functions/methods/language constrtucts) that allows the skin designer to manipulate the raw value.

 

This way a change can be made from the current system of creating hardcoded renderers and converters for each and every value a skin designer would ever want to display to a set of generic components that can be used time and time again. Adding new modifiers is never a problem for existing skins, and neither is updating the API with a new raw data name.

 

In the past I've made a PHP template engine to generate emails from templates using this principle, but it applies to skins all the same.

 

It is simple enough to understand for not-technical-savvy people, in the app I've implemented that system the templates are made and maintained by a department secretary. It just requires a bit of documentation.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #194 kamaxx

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 17:58

Good evening,

 

DimitarCC,

 

Box gives error when i want to change skin from E2-DarkOS to another skin.

 

Skin v0.9.9.2 does not show info header.

l add "Ex" after ServiceName then OK. Only channel number is absent.  

I have never seen channel number :)

 

 

Attached Files



Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #195 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 18:13

@kamaxx
I know for the error, but it seems to be a bug in hdmicec plugin. I think is missing a check for non existing data which crashed it.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #196 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 18:18

@WanWizard

Great. Why it is not implemented in enigma2 then?

I suppose for the same reason you and i pointed out above....

I basically agree that it should be more flexible, but seems dont have knowlege or those that have do not have time or wish to do it.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #197 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 18:27

Great. Why it is not implemented in enigma2 then?

 

Because I'm the only one thinking about architecture and design, about the project, and not about my personal agenda or ego? And I don't have the energy, time and skills to do that too... ?

 

You get this when there is no proper project organisation, no common plan, no design and architecture team, no desire (from any developer) to work to an agreed design.

 

Working on technical debt and code cleanup is not every ego pleasing, and a lot of work with not much visible to show for. There is only long term benefit.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #198 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 18:35

Ok. So we came to the point.... No developers with knowlege or no time.

So what have to be done in this case?
Just freeze everything and no development at all? No new features?

I dont think that is a solution either.

Obviously there should be a solution in the middle if there is no light in the tunnel.

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #199 WanWizard

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 18:44

Plenty of developers, that is not the problem.

 

The problem is none of those seem to be interested in this project as a whole, and by extension the future of this project. They are only concerned with their own pet projects, and willing to implement the quickest hack possible to move those forward.

 

I think it is safe to say that is it a sad state of affairs, given the fact everyone can read this, but only Littlesat and Taapat provide any response.


Currently in use: VU+ Duo 4K (2xFBC S2), VU+ Solo 4K (1xFBC S2), uClan Usytm 4K Ultimate (S2+T2), Octagon SF8008 (S2+T2), Zgemma H9.2H (S2+T2)

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Re: [WIP] PLi-DarkOS Skin #200 DimitarCC

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 18:59

I dont know who are the openpli developers....
I know only those that write in the forum... Which gives impression there are almost no developers

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