592 replies to this topic

[neo]

If you flash slot 0, do you wipe all the other slots, as they are installed in the same partition?

[Ev0]

If you flash slot 0, do you wipe all the other slots, as they are installed in the same partition?

Yes

[neo]

Then it seems logical that it is not allowed to flash slot 0.

[twol]

Then it seems logical that it is not allowed to flash slot 0.

That is totally illogical, except for OpenPli.
The original  (non Openpli) code allowed you to flash slot 0 and optional restore slots 1, 2 & 3.

Both options were made available as there could be a need to update slot 0 e.g drivers, E2 fixes

[neo]

If you can flash slot 0 without loosing the other slots, that changes things off course.

[Huevos]

Then it seems logical that it is not allowed to flash slot 0.

Of course he can flash it. Just jab it with a USB. That will do exactly the same as couch flashing slot 0.

 

In OpenViX/OpenBh it is only possible to couch flash slot 0 if you are running the slot 0 image.

Edited by Huevos, 28 May 2023 - 19:27.

[neo]

Of course he can flash it. Just jab it with a USB. That will do exactly the same as couch flashing slot 0.

 
This was about flash image in E2. Obviously, flashing via USB will erase all slots, like with all other multiboot capable boxes.
 

In OpenViX/OpenBh it is only possible to couch flash slot 0 if you are running the slot 0 image.

 
That seems to be the way it is implemented in OpenPLi too.

[Huevos]

 

Of course he can flash it. Just jab it with a USB. That will do exactly the same as couch flashing slot 0.

 
This was about flash image in E2. Obviously, flashing via USB will erase all slots, like with all other multiboot capable boxes.
 

In OpenViX/OpenBh it is only possible to couch flash slot 0 if you are running the slot 0 image.

 
That seems to be the way it is implemented in OpenPLi too.

 

Also, as stated above, in OpenViX/OpenBh it is possible to flash slot 0 and restore slots 1, 2 and 3.

[littlesat]

In OpenViX/OpenBh it is only possible to couch flash slot 0 if you are running the slot 0 image -> when ofgwrite should support this that at least the slots are somehow saved… and the installed image in slot 0 get somehow kexec initiate at the first run… it is the place where it actually should belong, the rest is tricky work-a-round… so please get it done right and for all the same instead of ‘yelling’ here and show arrogance that openvix did a tricky trick trick.

maybe we can also call it then slot 1, 2, 3 and 4 and no zero like all other boxes and in case of slot 1 maybe backup the slots 2,3,4 in the new case somehow in ofgwrite to get it ‘transparent’.

Edited by littlesat, 28 May 2023 - 22:02.

[Pr2]

So just for my personal understanding of the VU+ Multiboot process, can someone explain where are the slot stored and what the dependencies are between slots?

 

I was thinking that it will be possible to create the slot on the HDD (I have SSD in my boxes) but it seems by reading your comment that the slots are created in the flash itself, but the flash is not partitioned like a true multiboot STB is.

So slot 0 contains it all and slot 1,2,3 are "fake" slot created into slot 0.

 

Is it correct?

 

Would it be possible to create the slot on the internal HDD?

[neo]

There are no dependencies between slots.

 

All slots are stored in a directory in the only flash partition that exists, the partition in which the main image (slot 0) is flashed. So yes, you are correct. It would be better to repartition flash, so there is a separate small partition for slot 0, and a second partition for the other slots. Shouldn't be too complicated to create in the BSP.

 

Some images have options to create slots on other media, some images have the option to retain slots 1-3 when you flash slot 0 (I assume by temporarily moving them to other media).

 

I don't think OpenPLi atm supports any of those features, but Littlesat should be able to confirm that.

Edited by neo, 29 May 2023 - 15:37.

[twol]

So just for my personal understanding of the VU+ Multiboot process, can someone explain where are the slot stored and what the dependencies are between slots?

 

I was thinking that it will be possible to create the slot on the HDD (I have SSD in my boxes) but it seems by reading your comment that the slots are created in the flash itself, but the flash is not partitioned like a true multiboot STB is.

So slot 0 contains it all and slot 1,2,3 are "fake" slot created into slot 0.

 

Is it correct?

 

Would it be possible to create the slot on the internal HDD?

On Vu4k when  you normally flash you have a kernel and root partition. In Vu+  kexec multiboot the  root partition still contains the original root - modified (Recovery/slot0 ) and also as you flash slots 1,2 & 3, directories linuxrootfs1, 2 & 3 are added which contain the slot root & kernel).

In OpenViX/Openbh a decision was made to add further slots on a removeable usb device as apart from anything else, it saves complications with it being used as a system device(it holds the image partitions) and a work(hdd). So using an internal/external device (even ssd) for both images and work (hdd) can lead to complications.

[littlesat]

When the slots are a directory in the main flash than can easily backed up on usb or hdd or mount I guess. Something that ofgwrite can do when you flash slot 0?

Edited by littlesat, 29 May 2023 - 16:06.

[rantanplan]

There are no dependencies between slots.

 

All slots are stored in a directory in the only flash partition that exists, the partition in which the main image (slot 0) is flashed. So yes, you are correct. It would be better to repartition flash, so there is a separate small partition for slot 0, and a second partition for the other slots. Shouldn't be too complicated to create in the BSP.

 

Some images have options to create slots on other media, some images have the option to retain slots 1-3 when you flash slot 0 (I assume by temporarily moving them to other media).

 

I don't think OpenPLi atm supports any of those features, but Littlesat should be able to confirm that.

and now we are back to a true multiboot and this is how Neutrino implemented it!
https://forum.mbreme...26303cf83a39c33
What is happening here begs for problems that we should all be aware of.
I'm still wondering why it's adopted that way.

It is clear to everyone that we are using something that has already caused and still causes problems with 'OpenMultoboot'.

Modules are loaded and not reliably unloaded when changing the image.
Which module does it concern?
hit or miss.

What will happen and has already happened?
Inexplicable crashes and inexplicable failure of the entire multiboot.

As nice as the idea is, it is also uncertain.

The 'openMultiboot' is now being implemented in Flash, which makes things more problematic.
On the USB stick I can pull the stick and everything is the same as before.
As Flash, it's going to be a lot more difficult.

Apart from the fact that something is thrown at the users and no explanation follows, they are left alone with the problems.

When OpenVix and OpenBH keep saying there are no problems and unfortunately Captain of ATV doesn't want to see them either, then they are ignoring their own forums.
That is very unfortunate.

I still recommend undoing this 'multiboot' for pli and continue to use the good VU+ receivers as they are.

If you want real multiboot, you will have to look at the somewhat more tedious way via neutrino.

My opinion
 

[littlesat]

And again back to the beginning…. Unless all we still can get one slot with 4 images in directories. Partitions are not mandatory here. But the slot 0 should contain something small… eg a binary that can start images on demand and also install stuff via ofgwrite kind of thing and download it… zo in fact to do het really good we need a kind of recovery image…. Without such thing all solutions are work-a-rounds….

Edited by littlesat, 29 May 2023 - 18:10.

[Ev0]

I still recommend undoing this 'multiboot' for pli and continue to use the good VU+ receivers as they are.

I agree, OpenPLi should not include Vu+ / Kexec / Whatever name you think is better Mulitboot.

Not for any of the reasons that you have listed (which just goes to show your own lack of understanding), but for the simple fact that nobody seems to want to spend the time to understand how it works, and instead would rather argue the toss over things that are impossible to implement without the help of the manufacturer (which has no interest in doing so).

 

[neo]

Creating a small separate partition for "the recovery image" (shouldn't be called slot 0 then) should be possible without manufacturer support by making changes to the BSP, that doesn't require changes to the bootloader.

 

It should also not be that complicated to create a stripped-down image with a stripped down enigma (some core code, network, multiboot-selector, flashimage) to flash as recovery image in that seperate partition.

 

Restoring to non-multiboot state can be done by simply flashing the standard USB image.

Edited by neo, 29 May 2023 - 18:48.

[Huevos]

I think the following best describes what is happening in this thread:

 

 

Once upon a time, there were a farm. Most of the animals on the farm were happy. But Chicken Licken was not happy. Chicken Licken was a scardy cat, afraid of every thing.

One day, Chicken Licken went to the forest. He stopped by an oak tree.

Suddenly, a small acorn dropped from the tree and hit Chicken Licken’s scalp. Chicken Licken didn’t see the acorn. He looked up at the blue sky. "Oh no! " he said. "The sky must be falling".

Chicken Licken ran around the tree. "The sky is falling! The sky is falling! " he cried. "I must tell this to the King," thought Chicken Licken. He hurried back to the farmyard.

Henny Penny was sitting by the hen house.

"Out of my way! " screamed Chicken Licken.

"What’s the matter? " asked Henny Penny.

"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Licken.
"Oh no!" said Henny Penny. "What shall we do?"
"I’m going to alert the King, " said Chicken Licken.

"I’ll come too," said Henny Penny.
They ran past the hen house and… Thump! They knocked into Cocky Locky.

"What’s the matter?" questioned Cocky Locky.
"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Licken.
"Oh no!" said Cocky Locky. "What shall we do?"
"We are going to inform the King," said Henny Penny.
"I’ll come too," said Cocky Locky.
They ran out of the farmyard.They ran past the duck pond. Ducky Lucky was swimming.
"What’s the matter? " inquired Ducky Lucky.

"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Licken.
"Oh no!" said Ducky Lucky. "What shall we do?"
"We are going to tell the King," said Cocky Locky.
"I’ll come too," said Ducky Lucky.
They ran across the bridge. They came to the old barn. Gosey Loosey was sitting on her nest.
"What’s the matter? " asked Gosey Loosey.

"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Licken.
"Oh no!" said Gosey Loosey. "What shall we do?"
"We are going to inform the King," said Ducky Lucky.
"I’ll come too," said Gosey Loosey.
They ran past the barn. They ran into the field. Turkey Lurkey was pecking at the ground.
"What’s the matter?" questioned Turkey Lurkey.
"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Licken.
"Oh no!" said Turkey Lurkey. "What shall we do?"
"We are going to tell the King, " said Gosey Loosey.
"I’ll come too," said Turkey Lurkey.
They ran through the field. Soon they came to the forest – and Foxy Loxy.
"What’s the matter?" asked Foxy Loxy.
"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Licken.
Foxy Loxy didn’t believe the sky was falling. But he didn’t say.

"We are going to inform the King, " said Turkey Lurkey.

"I know a secret shortcut," said Foxy Loxy.
He guided them into the forest… and directed to a hole. "Down here, " he said.
All of them went down the hole. "Is this where the King lives? " asked Henny Penny.
"No," said Foxy Loxy. "It’s where I live." "And it’s where I’m going to gobble you all up!"
"Who will tell the King the sky is falling?" cried Chicken Licken.
"Stupid bird," said Foxy Loxy. "The sky can’t fall."
Just then, an acorn struck Foxy Loxy on the head. Foxy Loxy did not see it. All he could see was sky. "The sky is falling" he said. Now he was scared. He ran straight down the tunnel and was never ever seen again.

The others had seen the acorn fall on Foxy Loxy. Everybody looked at Chicken Licken.

"Are you sure the sky fell on your head?" they said.
"Maybe it was an acorn," said Chicken Licken.
And they chased him all the way home.

 

[littlesat]

…

Edited by littlesat, 30 May 2023 - 13:34.

[Frenske]

Although I am not a developer I wonder what might be the purpose of this fairy tail like respond. 
In general, I believe that if someone does not make a pertinent comment, it is better to refrain from making nonsensical comments. This makes no sense and as a result only members get frustrated. Hereby a request to Huevos to limit yourself to substantive technical comments from now on. Whether or not you agree with each other's point of view is no reason to respond cynically to each other. Thanks for understanding.