2520 replies to this topic

[malakudi]

 

And it's evident that a quality amplifier behind is important (and I do have it here over the end analoge fase). Means also good speakers and so on .....

t

Off course some persons never will hear the difference in music as they can't feel the subtility in music. That's another point.

 

Unfortunately for you, every double-blind test that has been done under scientific research has failed to find an "ultra-human" hearing capability to any man (or woman). People's hearing is never - NEVER - able to hear anything above 20KHz. And unless you prove the Nyquist Shannon theorem incorrect (by math or by scientific experiment), 48KHz sampling is more than enough.

Edited by malakudi, 9 April 2015 - 07:25.

[christophecvr]

Well continue to mix up the frequentie wave and the sample rate. sample rate != frequentie wave.

 

First read this article http://en.wikipedia....nal_processing)

 

Seams that you're again stuck in old fashion mode whitout evolution.

 

By the way 20–20,000 Hz range is the average human rate. the most persons are higher or low.

 

My personal ear tests  a couple of yeras ago show that range was 22-24,000 Hz . And yess they said that that 24,000 Hz was pretty high and not so comon.

 

Even to have the full 20-20,000 Hz 48000 is not enough.

 

On top off it the base Nyquist Shannon theorem is the longer the more contested by other experts. Experts are even in discution about it now.

 

It just come simply all to : Off course some persons never will hear the difference in music as they can't feel the subtility in music. That's another point.

 

And yess I can hear the difference(with classical music), You apparently not. That's life.

 

By the way appart from the retro fashion about the come back off vinil,

That is one off the primary reasons.

Edited by christophecvr, 9 April 2015 - 08:02.

[christophecvr]

But in despit off all theory's and so on ....

 

The driver decides what to do and that is that.....

 

If the driver fails like on dreambox and the older et's we have to do it ourselve and limit the sample rate during convertion.

 

Do not decrease quality whitout any reason especially not when it's based on a the longer the more contested theorem.

[Erik Slagter]

Anyway, I don't think the VU+ receivers actually do have a > 48 kHz capable DAC. And if they do, the netto quality on the analog side won't be any higher than 48 kHz/16 bit (if even that level is reached). The only way to have advantage of higher sample frequencies or higher sample widths is to supply it to an external DAC, which must be very high end to show any difference and your probably can't hear the difference anyway.

 

What actually happens, I think, is that the processor downsamples to 48 kHz in a very simple way and then sends it so the hardware. For a 96 or 192 kHz signal, that isn't such a big deal, just average two or four samples and you get a "lossless" conversion. Just a shame after going through so much trouble.

[christophecvr]

That's just going up for dreambox.

 

On vuplus there is real better quality of sound from the 24bit - 192. The very same vuduo2 very same track (testing track) but set instead off MAX(or 192000) ,  48000 gives for that track a real difference in sound and it can be heard. 

 

Off course it's a clasic music extract and off course the track is really recorded from real orchest whit a sample rate off 192000 and off course it's not for nothing that such a track is choosen to bring the difference to the max possible.

 

If You would play techno (even recorded straight to 192000) You won't here any difference and this goes up for a lot off music.

 

Bit I'm pretty shure that this theory that 48 kHz/16 bit (if even that level is reached) is there at this time for a majority off stb's. Not for vuduo2 or solo2 and I do not think for et10K . But I'm pretty shure You're right if it's for vuduo vusolo and lower et versions.

 

And that special track will not make a difference by the vuduo,solo or et lower then the 10K . Playing at 48000 or MAX.

 

What also is true all music from a cd does have (in the best case)  44.1kHz. DVD 48kHz.

 

It's only better for really modern blu ray.  And perhaps modern movies buyed on the internet.  And the longer the more the professional audio sector.

 

But that's why I'm thinking to really use in the multibox-dvbmediasink (only gst-1.0 will not be compatible with the old fashion gst-0.10) to set it all depended on real stb type and this on compile time . We always build the sink in a image build enviroment.

 

Then for the stb's where it's usseless to set any higher then 48000 set as MAX 48000.

[malakudi]

And yess I can hear the difference(with classical music), You apparently not. That's life.

 

 

I call bullshit. You can't tell the difference, unless you have successfully passed a double blind test. You "believe" you hear the difference, but you are not. And honestly, we (sceptic people) don't care what people believe. We care about metrics, scientific experiments, under controlled environment. Pass a double blind test (or show us someone who had), then we'll talk.

 

edit: the so called "audiophilles" are a bunch of "believers" with many money to spend. Even to buy 540$ 3 ft power electricity cables.

Edited by malakudi, 9 April 2015 - 15:53.

[Erik Slagter]

Including the DAC from your STB LOL!

[pieterg]

I would never expect hifi sound from an stb, I use my high-end audio components for that.

 

The only advantage of higher samplerates that I can think of, is that you can use much cheaper dacs (with simpler low-pass filters, staying way clear of the audible 20kHz)

 

But even then, you're much better off increasing the sample width than the sample rate.
Only on hifi equipment of course, there is no point using better source material, when the stb is producing less-than-perfect output at 48kHz / 16bit.

[christophecvr]

 

And yess I can hear the difference(with classical music), You apparently not. That's life.

 

 

I call bullshit. You can't tell the difference, unless you have successfully passed a double blind test. You "believe" you hear the difference, but you are not. And honestly, we (sceptic people) don't care what people believe. We care about metrics, scientific experiments, under controlled environment. Pass a double blind test (or show us someone who had), then we'll talk.

 

edit: the so called "audiophilles" are a bunch of "believers" with many money to spend. Even to buy 540$ 3 ft power electricity cables.

 

 

And some create there own new theorem.

 

So yes To all real experts scientist which are really investigating the facts are real open as they now it's still a theorem, and evolution can show new data which make some theorems contestable.

 

Stop with You're work, you all loosing time.

 

We have the new malakudi theorem

[malakudi]

"theorem" (θεώρημα in greek) is not an idea you might have. It is a PROVEN mathematical statement, based on previous theorems or on generally accepted statements known as axioms (αξίωμα in greek). So your phrase "still a theorem" does not make any sense. You should study some math and logic first.

 

HD audio is just to push sales, new speakers, new pre-amplifiers/amlifiers/players etc etc. And of course sell new "HD audio" content. Then, on the other side of the equation we have the "audiophilles" tribe that believe the scratch/distortion vinyls sound better than CD, so they NEED to buy the new HD audio formats. After all, they CAN hear the difference, don't they?

 

And of off-topic from me.

[christophecvr]

Like I told THE malakudi theorem woooowh, never saw just high matematical proven statement.

[Trial]

Hi Erik,
You Talk About dac but this is only of interest in You use the worst possible connection. What about hdmi and spdif?

Ralf

Edited by Trial, 9 April 2015 - 17:20.

[Erik Slagter]

Apparently cvr does use the internal dac (so analogue audio out), that is what I am referring to.

[christophecvr]

But at the end and all theory. All very nice.

Point is do not force a lower quality if higher is avbl. Let the driver do and only interfere if the drivers does not his job ok. Will You improve that's all dependent on what the hardware really can the amplifiers behind and ... .

By always setting a fixed low rate cause You're convinced about some theorems and do not take into account new evolutions just cause we are more capable of obtain correct data and more parameters ... More then enough to matemathically prove that a certain theorem in despit the fact it was proven in older days is not right . And this does not mean that a new theorem is there , ... well that the build off the actual has been done with some missing data.

 

That's a job for the real scientist. And the fact that they contest some theorems is that they do have real data to contest them. Not enough to create a new theorem.

 

Off course like usual some guys create there own theorem like the malakudi theorem.

 

I keep it open for all.

 

After this . Fact is that with the dts downmix it's not going ok just cause at a certain point the video is running ok , while the dvbmediasink thinks it is not. and so start an unneeded flush and resync events and so ...

It is just a mather off sequencing. After state change from pause to play. In despit the fact that video really runs ok the kernels thinks video is not ready and not playing while it is well. As a result it cuts off the first pts off audio. And this leads to a complete resync off audio while video stays running. After a while gstreamer does finally synchronize and sound will play. but .... Here again in case off High vq stream a quit hackish procedure is applied the frame needs to be cut in two.

 

Wel on ok drivers this issue is catched for disregarding that video not ok yet. It's really a fraction in time. That's not with dreambox. I even tried as test to forece the use off dtsdownmix on vuduo2 where its' not needed att all. But even then if audio plays trough downmix its' ok. We do not have this pts cut off which scerws everything. As fore how to solve ... That's another question. I tried much but still was not able to find a good solution.

 

Perhaps malakudi can come with a new famous theorem. .... could help me much

[christophecvr]

Apparently cvr does use the internal dac (so analogue audio out), that is what I am referring to.

Not for vuduo2 there I use hdmi out.

[christophecvr]

Well after all very nice here in openpli.

 

1) A betateam member with an own new developed theorem 180 degrees against the rest of the world The malakudi theorem.

2) A Core member with suppositions out off his fantasy the Erik thaughts.

 

3) A real experienced C/C++ Core member Pieterg wich really does everything to counteract any possible evolution.

 

No wonder that after 1 year and a half there is still not 100 % ok gst-1.0 image.

[HPPli]

Well after all very nice here in openpli.

 

1) A betateam member with an own new developed theorem 180 degrees against the rest of the world The malakudi theorem.

2) A Core member with suppositions out off his fantasy the Erik thaughts.

 

3) A real experienced C/C++ Core member Pieterg wich really does everything to counteract any possible evolution.

 

No wonder that after 1 year and a half there is still not 100 % ok gst-1.0 image.

You are right, +1 !!!

[malakudi]

Well after all very nice here in openpli.

 

1) A betateam member with an own new developed theorem 180 degrees against the rest of the world The malakudi theorem.

2) A Core member with suppositions out off his fantasy the Erik thaughts.

 

3) A real experienced C/C++ Core member Pieterg wich really does everything to counteract any possible evolution.

 

No wonder that after 1 year and a half there is still not 100 % ok gst-1.0 image.

 

So, what are you still doing here? Why are you waiting for others? Fork OpenPLi and build your Christophecvr image. We are all counting on you. If you can code as well as you can hear ultrasounds, it will be a great image.

[christophecvr]

Woowh malakudi very  original  . Yes really You're the most original  the best in the world and really catch everything.

 

You're breaking down everything. Have 0.0 positif critics only bringing down. And that is really for all You're remarks and comments. They make in general no sence at all.

 

Verry nice,

 

Gues openpli will really evoluate with the Very new Best and Highest Matematics specialist in the World. Sir malakudi with the great new malakudi theorem.  Waawh

[Frenske]

Guys, and that is for all involved and not for one specific member, I really think that 'all' has been said and before things will get really nasty, I can do three things.

1. Close this topic. I definitely do not prefer this.
2. Hoping that all members involved will use their common sense, remain on topic and stop the childish behavior.
3. Temporarily close this topic to create a cool down period for all involved.

For the moment I choose 2. Please behave like adults and don't disappoint me.