83 replies to this topic

[Roodkapke]

Name me 1 receiver that will last forever without any flaws.

[Ratatosk]

As far i know the et5k and et6k boxes recent drivers do not have a check anymore... So at least the security issue for these boxes are irrilivant...

 
This, exactly, is how I thought it would work, when I first read about it. But apparently it doesn't. So why not?

Is there really a need to still protect against clones of the ET5000? Or is it that the designers didn't have the forethought to differentiate between models in their protection scheme? I.e. when the drivers are released that will unlock the ET5000, will they also simultaneously unlock the ET9500?

 

Here in Holland if a device has a (major) design flaw the manufacturer has to fix it under warranty even if the standard device warranty is gone.

 
Now checking the laws of my own country (Sweden), I cannot find anything to distinguish design flaws from other defects existing at the time of purchase. General consumer rights here are normally limited to three years after the purchase (exception for defects dangerous to life or health) and it's the seller's obligation to deal with it. Although, if he's out of business, that obligation can be transferred "up the chain" all the way to the manufacturer. (I am not a lawyer though.) I have no idea what Greek law says, of course.

Regardless of laws, though, I agree with malakudi. The manufacturer really should have come up with some kind of fix for him and everybody in his situation. (If, for whatever reason, they feel they cannot release drivers to unlock the 5000 and 6000, then they should have arranged for the defective security boards to be fixed, for free, or else indemnified the customers in some other way.)


This isn't about the anti-clone protection scheme as such, the way I see it. (Again, provided it works as it should, it doesn't seem that terribly big a deal to me. Battery life shouldn't reasonably be an issue, ever.) Rather it's about the manufacturer support and willingness to fulfill its (moral, if nothing else) obligations to the customer. And, yes, since the manufacturing defect (design flaw) was in a device of no direct value to the user, only to the manufacturer, I too would say it places an extra obligation on the manufacturer.

I've got the impression that the company behind Xtrend is relatively small. And, if so, I am willing to cut them some slack compared to what you'd expect from a market leader with nigh boundless resources. (In particular if they're otherwise playing well with the open-source community.) But there has to be limits to how much a customer should have to put up with, of course.


(Yes, I too am now speaking off my own topic, strictly speaking.   Sorry about that. But, from where I stand at least, soon buyer of one of these boxes, I don't think some general discussion also on the customer support policies of these manufacturers, or their distributors, will hurt — provided, of course, it can be kept fair and factual and my original topic(s) isn't forgotten.)

[littlesat]

I suggest st the greek situation is more related due to a distrubuter that get bankrupped... So there exists in between no support al all over there in Greece... And then all those boxes that get troubles in greece are collected via fora on the internet... Making the issue bigger than it really should be.
The dutch distrubiter is not responsible for greece... And did also not make any money from sales in greece. So they do ask costs to repair these boxes...
I understand this is not how it should be... But what can you do in case of bankruption...?

Edited by littlesat, 9 December 2013 - 08:05.

[malakudi]

I suggest st the greek situation is more related due to a distrubuter that get bankrupped... So there exists in between no support al all over there in Greece... And then all those boxes that get troubles in greece are collected via fora on the internet... Making the issue bigger than it really should be.
The dutch distrubiter is not responsible for greece... And did also not make any money from sales in greece. So they do ask costs to repair these boxes...
I understand this is not how it should be... But what can you do in case of bankruption...?

 

The distributor went bankrupt (actually they moved business to Bulgaria and changed name and now deny any obligation to their former customers), but the obligation of the manufactuter still exists. I was actually very excited when I read from your post that latest drivers don't have tpm check. I hope this will happen sooner or later. I think OpenPLI team can push things fo this direction, make the manufacturer aware of the issues and make them release a driver that doesn't check for tpm for those old boxes that are no longer for sale. Then everyone will be happy and I will regain confidence to Xtrend - I really like the features ET10000 has, I really like their driver maturity and compatibility.