43 replies to this topic

[WanWizard]

I don't think "that is because it was designed that way". It is "because everybody is using them like that for the last 10 years".

So that is a UX issue, and changing anything that alters UX you must to consider carefully.

 

It's not that "they have them designed as zap buttons", it's that the manufacturers take a cheap R/C of the shelf, and no standard R/C has the concept of bouquets. So in that respect the design is wrong, not Enigma (E2 was there first ).

 

p.s. talking about UX: Enigma2 sucks bigtime in that arena, the entire UI should be stripped from Enigma and replaced. But that is another story.

[Rob van der Does]

Well, just read Littlesat's repeated answer on this repeated question.
And I can assure you that far from everybody is using it the CH+/- buttons as B+/-: PLi is (as far as I know) the only image doing this. OK, probably DM as well.

And I agree about the (G)UI, but it's a major job doing that.

[Pr2]

....

I don't think any kind of timeout would really help me there unless the timeout would be configurable and "0" would mean old style. Using

 

parental control would make things only worse as I never use it and never needed or wanted to use it. That's one of the main reasons I use linux stb's instead of the boxes provided by pay tv

....

 

Hi,

 

You understand timeout totally wrong the timeout, a timeout set to 0 will mean always new behavior (always open the last pip channel), timeout with <> 0 value will means old style PiP  when the timeout is expired! Of course setting the timeout to 5 or 15 minutes we will know which channel will appears in the PiP but as you said, we never remember what channel was the last pipped after several hours and most of the time its not the one that we want in the current PiP which is displayed, so when the timeout will be expired it will return to the old style and open up in PiP the same channel as the current one.

 

I also agree with end-user that find smart that if we exit PiP by mistake pressing again PiP will return to the former PiP channel.

 

So this timeout proposition will make everybody happy.

 

Parental control should work if set, it is a protection when you have children) and even in PiP it should work, this was the case before the change. Smart teenagers will quickly found this "bug" and use it to bypass parental control. Of course, you are free to enable it or not.

 

Littlesat seems to agree with my idea to have this timeout but I don't think it is already implemented and I really think that this will make everybody happy. With 1 parameter we can have everybody happy.

 

Pr2

Edited by Pr2, 20 June 2014 - 15:35.

[littlesat]

But: then one should also stop saying about the CH+/- buttons 'that they are meant to open the bouquets, because that's how it has been designed in E2' (while all but DM's R/C have then designed as zap-button).
The same argument can't be used both ways. 

This is completely different... It is a waste to have two same buttons on a remote for zapping.... And it is a fact that some remotes delivered with e2 boxes have indeed an incorrect  print in the remote... I do not see any good reason to assign these buttons to zap buttons... As you have already zap buttons... Why doing this double,..???

i suggest the remotes where made actually for boxes that do not support multiple bouquets...

Edited by littlesat, 20 June 2014 - 18:04.

[Rob van der Does]

But: then one should also stop saying about the CH+/- buttons 'that they are meant to open the bouquets, because that's how it has been designed in E2' (while all but DM's R/C have then designed as zap-button).
The same argument can't be used both ways. 

This is completely different... It is a waste to have two same buttons on a remote for zapping.... And it is a fact that some remotes delivered with e2 boxes have indeed an incorrect  print in the remote... I do not see any good reason to assign these buttons to zap buttons... As you have already zap buttons... Why doing this double,..???
i suggest the remotes where made actually for boxes that do not support multiple bouquets...

You see: because 'it has always been like that'.
DM has B+/- buttons, all other brands have CH+/- buttons. Why do you think so many people ask for support of CH+/-?

[littlesat]

all other brands have CH+/- buttons

Some have P +/-, some have B +/-, some have CH +/- or CH page +/-....  so not true and I only see you asking for CH+/-.... no others.... And it is a waste of use of keys.... And still I think a big miss from the manufacurers who arange these remotes...

And note it is currently not a difficult patch to change this behaviour ... I can add an option to swap the arrow buttons for channel +/- with the CH/B/P +/- buttons... wasting it and double assign buttons is as I suggest moeda.

 

And note in fact the Neutrino style (old style called now... but I'm considering to rebrand it to neutrino style) was there before the E2 style...

Edited by littlesat, 20 June 2014 - 20:46.

[Rob van der Does]

The very question has been asked multiple times and answered by you multiple times.

So which boxes have B+/- (apart from DM)? I can't find any in my collection.

[littlesat]

The very question has been asked multiple times and answered by you multiple times.

Where????

So which boxes have B+/- (apart from DM)? I can't find any in my collection. 

You talk about a miss print on the remotes... in fact these remotes are not E2 compliant...

And it is not only the infobar where these keys are used as bouquet keys... 

Edited by littlesat, 21 June 2014 - 08:04.

[Dimitrij]

http://sourceforge.n...ac6b43e5e52889/

This has led to problems in many plugins.

[littlesat]

Which are the many plugins?

 

I hope you are agree this makes it better readable... When it are not too many plugins I suggest it is better the plugins do adapt...

 

I know that with this commit there was a risk for specific plugins.... Is it keymap related or related to calls to infobar (I did not renamed the assential function names in the infobar...)

 

When it is keymap related I can only imagine that MQB is the issue... this plugin can be adapted...

Edited by littlesat, 21 June 2014 - 08:05.

[WanWizard]

What a complete non-discussion. I've already said that, but let me summarize again:

 

- DMM has introduced the notion of Bouquets in Enigma, no other STB has these

- to be able to support them, the have added B+/B- buttons on the remote control

- other manufacturer wanted to get rich quickly by manufacturing E2 compatible STB's

- and they just bought cheap standard remote controls from the local chinese on the corner

- which were cheap standard remote controls, designed for systems that don't have bouquets (all but E2 STB's)

- and the manufacturer simply can't bother, they just map the keys in their version of Enigma

 

If you now demand that Enigma must follow the stupidity of these manufacturers, and add a keymap that follows the print on the remote by the letter, you will end up with

- a lot of inconsistencies as to controlling the STB

- loss of functionality as some remotes miss crucial buttons (like the B+/B- buttons !)

 

And what does that bring you?

 

Satkiekerd, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Instead, point your arrows to the manufacturers, and make sure they supply remotes with the required buttons to control an E2 STB...

[littlesat]

And in between... your wish is my command....

[Rob van der Does]

The very question has been asked multiple times and answered by you multiple times.

Where????
 

So which boxes have B+/- (apart from DM)? I can't find any in my collection. 
 
You talk about a miss print on the remotes... in fact these remotes are not E2 compliant...
And it is not only the infobar where these keys are used as bouquet keys...

@ wanwizard: you see? This proves my point.
All RC's are wrong and all images are wrong......
ROFL

[littlesat]

All RC's are wrong and all images are wrong......

Indeed... everything is wrong....

[Pr2]

What a complete non-discussion. I've already said that, but let me summarize again:

 

- DMM has introduced the notion of Bouquets in Enigma, no other STB has these

....

 

Hi,

 

Sorry but this statement is false, on every STB that I own since the very beginning of my satellite experience (many years ago) we have this feature but it was called Favorites instead of Bouquets so just another name for the same things, and most STB have a direct key to access this... mostly called: favorite  :-)

 

So indeed the choice of DMM to provide a poor RCU with a lot of direct button missing leads to this confusion, due to DMM you need to trick to have access to features. Red button to record while any other STB have a real record button with all the associated key (like on VCR, DVD,....)

 

Pr2

[Dimitrij]

Can then add the option:

Press OK -->Open service list

P+/--->Show/hide infobar

[littlesat]

I think we now reach the limit....

 

how should I make this programmable? 

 

Then we have P+/-  -> servicelist - zap - infobar show/hide (so three modes)

OK -> infobar show/hide - service list...

 

But I hope everything is final...

But for now my time is over... I suggest Dima you can add it yourself and offer me a patch... 

[rtzhjgg0]

'Latest Commits', 'InfoBarGenerics: Only remember lastPiPService for a minute' dont works here (Duo2 upd. 21.06.14 16:51).

Even over 2 minutes - still = lastPiPService opening a  new PiP window.

[hemertje]

it is just committed today so tomorrow online

[rtzhjgg0]

it is just committed today so tomorrow online

ok, thnx