644 replies to this topic

[mamamia]

What about my first point? Should Openpli treat a manufacturer that takes more risks and offers more hardware innovation differently? Maybe the manufacturer does not comply to Openpli coding guidelines & standards because bcm is difficult too and because delivering hardware as well as software innovation first is more expensive and difficult? I think Openpli should support the coolest new hardware that will help e2 evolve in the future. From my point arm in combination with fbc tuner is sexy and you should start supporting the sexiest new engine.

From my customer point of view Openpli team should support and reward hardware innovation.

Regarding pli look. No shit sherlock!
In order to improve engine, usability as well as the look image build diversity is great for the customers. So the mix is good for us.

[Erik Slagter]

I just explained this in the Dutch section but I will repeat it. Bugs are unavoidable. Every manufacturer has them, tough luck. The PROBLEM with VU+ is that the drivers only implement the MINIMAL functionality from the Linux DVBAPI, so exactly their version of enigma2 runs on it. As soon as someone (like us) wants to add features to enigma2 that need drivers support, it breaks. To make it even more cynical, other manufacturers do indeed implement the complete Linux DVBAPI, so it's only VU+ that is holding us back. So what about innovation by VU+! VU+ only halts innovation!

[malakudi]

I wouldn't call OpenATV "sexy". The menu "hell" they have introduced is not sexy at all. Also, not fixing features they copied badly from OpenPLi (like the EPG language selection I have reported to them in the English section of their forum without even getting a reply from any developer) is not "sexy" at all.

 

In my point of view, OpenATV only cares to offer images for so many boxes. Will they work reliably? Will they work at all? Are all features on the menus working? Well, it seems they do not care, as long as an image is available to download and install. For example, I used OpenATV image on a box called "Edision Pingulux". It is an older box with STi chipset. Well, image flashes successfully and loads. But it doesn't work well. It is very slow. Metrix skin is good looking but not good for every box - yet they made it default for all boxes. And when I tried to use "fallback tuner" option, the box freezed. What is the point in offering an image with menu options that either don't work or, even worse, lock the box from working?

Edited by malakudi, 1 December 2015 - 16:10.

[mamamia]

Thats exactly my point. Maybe other manufacturer support complete dvbapi and comply to Openpli coding standard because they dont invest in hardware innovation like vu+ does. Seams obvious that its way more difficult as well as expensive to be first in combination with new bcm hardware. Pli team should also take this important point in account.

[mamamia]

Of couse, skin, bootlogo design etc is very subjective. But what happends when team like openatv support many boxes? Big community is created that works together to improve e2. Maybe because of historical background not yet as many clever engineers as here but different with the potential to be clever engineers in the future. Boxes that dont get supported well from manufacturer dont get recommended. Anyway just my two cents! Cheers and thank you for being great engineers! I wish you would be more sexy engineers that also try to support hardware innovation.

Edited by mamamia, 1 December 2015 - 16:25.

[albsky]

I wouldn't call OpenATV "sexy". The menu "hell" they have introduced is not sexy at all. Also, not fixing features they copied badly from OpenPLi (like the EPG language selection I have reported to them in the English section of their forum without even getting a reply from any developer) is not "sexy" at all.

 

In my point of view, OpenATV only cares to offer images for so many boxes. Will they work reliably? Will they work at all? Are all features on the menus working? Well, it seems they do not care, as long as an image is available to download and install. For example, I used OpenATV image on a box called "Edision Pingulux". It is an older box with STi chipset. Well, image flashes successfully and loads. But it doesn't work well. It is very slow. Metrix skin is good looking but not good for every box - yet they made it default for all boxes. And when I tried to use "fallback tuner" option, the box freezed. What is the point in offering an image with menu options that either don't work or, even worse, lock the box from working?

I use OpenATV with my Solo 4K, and I have to say it's quite stable.Not a crash.

I like OpenPLi skin and I use it, so it really seems like old days with all my old Enigma 2 boxes, including all nice new features of the box (4k, FCB, increased memory and flash, and so on).

Every day there is a new software version which is automatically applied at no time at all.

 

So, the sexyness is not seen in the nice colors, but, for me it's about easy using and customizing and everyday support from a team that (in theory) does this just as an hobby.

 

Everything works correctly (tuners, key mapping, second infobar, language options, EPG).

Now, I do not know what has done OpenATV for that image, and what is done by OpenPLi or other teams, but I know for fact that without that team (and a few others TBH) we'd be stuck with the official firmware.

[Rob van der Does]

I wouldn't call OpenATV "sexy". The menu "hell" they have introduced is not sexy at all. Also, not fixing features they copied badly from OpenPLi (like the EPG language selection I have reported to them in the English section of their forum without even getting a reply from any developer) is not "sexy" at all.
 
In my point of view, OpenATV only cares to offer images for so many boxes. Will they work reliably? Will they work at all? Are all features on the menus working? Well, it seems they do not care, as long as an image is available to download and install. For example, I used OpenATV image on a box called "Edision Pingulux". It is an older box with STi chipset. Well, image flashes successfully and loads. But it doesn't work well. It is very slow. Metrix skin is good looking but not good for every box - yet they made it default for all boxes. And when I tried to use "fallback tuner" option, the box frEeezed. What is the point in offering an image with menu options thEat either don't work or, even worse, lock the box from working?

Exactly my thoughts and experience. Build as many images as is possible and don't care about quality.
Their menu is unbelievable: all kinds of double entries. And on bug reports and suggestions on their forum one never sees any response at all ( so I quit reporting them).

[littlesat]

What is wrong with our epg language selection???

[malakudi]

What is wrong with our epg language selection???

 

Ours works fine. However, OpenATV picked the commits and imported them into their enigma2 codebase, and it doesn't work. It doesn't keep the setting after enigma2 restart.

 

edit: this was my report on the issue on OpenATV forum. http://www.opena.tv/...ng-restart.html

I also reported them another issue about DM800SE images, here: http://www.opena.tv/...l-flashing.html

No developer replied. I guess they either do not have developers or they don't watch the english section (openatv is mostly german speaking). After those two reports going completely unnoticed, I decided that I will not report anything else back.

Edited by malakudi, 1 December 2015 - 18:33.

[littlesat]

Thanks for the reply!

Edited by littlesat, 1 December 2015 - 18:29.

[Erik Slagter]

Thats exactly my point. Maybe other manufacturer support complete dvbapi and comply to Openpli coding standard because they dont invest in hardware innovation like vu+ does. Seams obvious that its way more difficult as well as expensive to be first in combination with new bcm hardware. Pli team should also take this important point in account.

Rubbish.

 

There is no "OpenPLi coding standard". If I could judge the source code of the binaries the manufacturerers supply, to the "standard" that I use myself (and that's what I have learned at school, in a time coding quality was still an issue), they'd probably fail, all of them, not just VU+. So. Irrelevant.

 

Also VU+ is not innovative at all. They just probably are good friends with Broadcom, so they get the SoC sooner than others. Don't forget 99% of the STB is the SoC. VU+ only adds a few things like power supply, fancy displays and a slick design. It's a bit comparable to Apple in that respect.

 

VU+ made their first receivers way back in something like 2010. One might expect they should be able to come up with a proper dvbapi implementation in five years... Also considers other can do it within a year. It's just plain lameness, ommitting functionality on purpose and hope the customer won't notice.

[mirakels]

Oh and the  other thing is that you do'nt throw a device on the market and then say "Hey openPli, wat about supporting this box".

A polite and constructive way is "Hey openPli we plan to put this box on the market and we have some thoughts about feature x and z. Care to cooperate in making a great implementation?"

[Tony il Capo]

Exactly my thoughts and experience. Build as many images as is possible and don't care about quality.

And on bug reports and suggestions on their forum one never sees any response at all ( so I quit reporting them).

 

 

No developer replied. I guess they either do not have developers or they don't watch the english section (openatv is mostly german speaking). After those two reports going completely unnoticed, I decided that I will not report anything else back.

 

Exactly.

I use OpenATV on my older stb (there's not much alternative) and I have to say OpenATV support sucks big time!! If the image works with no bugs or even "small" ones you got lucky, if there's some bigger problem, you're screwed, you may report it, but they will not care.

[Tony il Capo]

Regarding OpenPli and OpenATV looks, that's not a big deal to me. To be honest I never liked OpenPli default skins. I've started to use other, now I have my own..

The point is that I would never drop OpenPli just because I don't like the default skins. There's so many skins out there, and you can always modify/mix/create your own custom skin.

Edited by Tony il Capo, 1 December 2015 - 20:56.

[Rob van der Does]

I guess they either do not have developers or they don't watch the english section (openatv is mostly german speaking). After those two reports going completely unnoticed, I decided that I will not report anything else back.

I reported in the German section, and got no replies at all. So it's not a language issue

[mamamia]

Well I think Openatv is used by a lot of people because they try to support as many potential e2 users and manufacturers as possible. This is good and logical to me because more people can help and improve e2 in the future. Thats why their community currently seams to be growing faster then this one. So they must be doing some things right. Manufacturers that have a bad reputation because they dont invest in improvement dont get recommened by users. Counting number of posts Gigablue, xtrend and vu seam to be doing well and alot of people seam to be happy and have fun with Openatv e2.

Also I believe Openatv looks sexy and they did add some nice new features like modern looking multi resolution mymetrix skin. Have a look for yourself. Pli might be more stable but does not look as good. For many or rather the mass that should be addressed visuals and direct easy of use are important. Compared to openpli, openatv looks good out of the box or rather directly after flashing without having to reconfigure and install new spinner, bootlogos & skins. This adresses the mainstream and mass of users.

I think that OpenPli as well as Vti should improve in this regard. Oldschool style skins, dmm wizard graphics from 2005 and rocker lady bootlogos are not cool or cult in 2015 and prevent more people from using e2. So from my point of view being very stable is of course very important but it would be better if you would also look sexy out of the box directly after flashing or e2 will always stay a geek - nerd software that does not address the masses.

Of course thats very subjective but I think the problem is that because the e2 construction site is immense and the historical focus of each team and how they got together is very different skin, bootlogos and design in general is not as important as it in my opionion should be. I think even though their image might not be as stable as Openpli, Openatv team currently improves e2 in this important regard. Maybe because their team is younger? Maybe because their team grew and got to know each other differently. Who knows. I like to look at whats positive and of course here e2 base technology and engine is developed. Cool! Here the guys work the engine. OpenAtv polish and make many cars look good. I spent a long time in the vti community and think it would help if the default skin, bootlogo design would be more democratic. Why not integrate and use the skin that most of the users currently like? Because the guys that design the old default skins and bootlogos has been a team member for ages and change is difficult.

Support Solo 4K not for the manufacturer but for the e2 users. Why not let users decide which hardware you guys support in the future? You have Solo 4K threads in all parts of this forum because the new arm chips and fbc tuner is cool and what people here want.

[pop_eye]

Thats exactly my point. Maybe other manufacturer support complete dvbapi and comply to Openpli coding standard because they dont invest in hardware innovation like vu+ does. Seams obvious that its way more difficult as well as expensive to be first in combination with new bcm hardware. Pli team should also take this important point in account.

I heard this layman argument before on another forum.That is completely far fetched and well pushed by the marketing people of the manufacturer.

The all misinterpreted assumption here is that VU+ is the innovator by using new chips employed in their stbs.

Remember ? They are only reselling bcm chip boards with remote, power supply, and black "sexy" packaging and top of that the marketing

promise some of the proceeds go to the hungry children of this world.

 

So believe me or not I don't believe in this company anymore - considering you can buy a soc chip for less then EUR 100 +/- some other parts which are not making the difference to EUR 500. Where are those moneys going? Are you paying for brick and mortar manufacturing in that price? I dont think so. Broadcom is a fabless company. They do not own their own manufacturing either. I really doubt Vu+ has their own. To put things into perspective when they buy these chips and actually the entire boards as reference design from BCM they are also receiving the SDK (Broadcom software) which is used in combination with their software dvb-api implementation to create the drivers. So you can put two and two together, in some of the latest drivers they do not even bother to rename the old soc name from the sources , because it is all working using the same dvb-api drivers which they started using 5 years ago.

So for them priority is shipping as many boxes as possible to their customers not to add new features. They say they do add new features by releasing new boxes but the chips are not even used at their true potential. Or if it is kludged together don't expect to be working 100% bug free to the entire life of the product. And five years from now you will probably end-up with buying a new box which is replacing an old one which you never used it as you should have the first place. And most probably asking OpenPli for support. Marketing bullshit needs to stop. Stop luring customers.

Edited by pop_eye, 2 December 2015 - 04:18.

[Trial]

Hi Erik,

the name VU+ exists since 2010 or so but they are very experienced as they build STBs before. If I should guess I would say 12-14 years experience in STBs.

 

ciao

[MiLo]

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Broadcom would in any way support Open Source systems. Broadcom hates open source and will continue to works against it in any way possible.

[mamamia]

Maybe no politeness is being exchanged because communication has stopped. No wonder reading some of the last posts. Seams a lot of politics taking place in the different Team forums. As I see it Vu+ did do things right and invested to make e2 better because they were often the ones to release new interesting hardware innovation first. Maybe its a language communication problem? Or has communication stopped because vu+ focus and priorities have changed. Telling no developement is taking place seams rubbish because alike other manufacturers vu+ actually has some devs working to improve vu+ e2 issues. Anyway i still hope Openpli engine devs decide to support new cool arm hardware with fbc Tuners and also start to invest some time in more sexyness.

http://code.vuplus.c...s_3.0;a=summary