gorski

You wouldn't want to use a discrete scaling, that looks horrible!

Erik, sorry, I can't help it: are you using your eyes now as a sole judge?!?

technically there is no reason to use black borders in broadcast material.

Thanx! Could you expand a bit more, as I would like to learn a bit more... Scaling here, changing the aspect from 4:3 to 16:9 etc., is something not done very well by BDCM, from my point of view - or have I overlooked something and I should try it differently?

I mean, if you try that with E2 settings in any image with DMM/Ferrari - it looks horrible, when changed that way, by the STB! As opposed to Sigma's AZbug, for instance.

another way to destroy SD quality is send received 4:3 SD through HDMI SD mode with added side blackbars,
picture then downscaled with pixels lose ~20%

This is what my BDCM DM/Ferrari 500 HD is doing badly and Sigma AZbug HD is handling it much better, for instance... You know, the two of them being side by side, from one to the other, the same settings in both, the same signal {TV or streaming from NAS etc.] - bleedin' obvious...

It sounds to me like we need a lot of "corrections" or "post processing" with all those "distortions" coming our way, so it seems you're missing the wood for the trees...

Moreover, all of them know they are working with human eyes... except maybe you... not even beginning to consider the most important part in all of this...

And yet, with all that alleged complete objectivity - we have nothing to really hang on to, something measurable - so you're stuck with "quality"...

Go figure...

Agreed! Except the bit about quality being (always) measurable... It depends what we mean by that, I suppose...

No, that is what I am trying to say all of the time. There is NO debate possible about picture quality.

Oh, there is, it's just a broader/deeper debate than some spectral analysis etc. But it is going on in philosophy etc. for a long time, in a variety of ways... Quantity v. quality and how one can become the other, a more dialectical perspective... Hard to figure out, I suppose, without any previous education in that regard, like, for instance, you trying to explain to me SHA in cryptology or some such phenomenon...

The quality of something, in this case a picture, is defined bij being true to nature. Every deviation from the input is quality degredation.

Ermmm, not in all things human, nope, thanx a bunch! We are much more than just nature in us... And Gawd help us if we try to simply root ourselves in 'nature'. In fact, we are essentially different, as we are all about culture over nature, in a manner of speaking...

(See, I told you it's a bit tricky... )

And so, if we start talking of "types of post processing" and "level of post processing" and what is most pleasing to the eye, then we can talk. It's just like debating whether 2 * 3 = 6 or if you like 5.8 over 6.2...

I believe you have been told already that these things are not exactly black or white and I agree with that. At the end of the day, if you can not come up with anything measurable, anything universally obliging, any proof from a scientific stance, then all we have, really, is our eyes and then no amount of technical explanations are any good because we MUST rely only on our eyes, never mind how much we read about various aspects of the story, from the technical side...

From a lay person's perspective...

The picture is processed a number of times before we see it on our TV screens, is it not? Every time it happens, it is "interpreted", meaning re-created.

In the end, what I see is what counts. The great big tons of explanations is neither here, nor there, really...

All else is dogma, it seems to me...

How do you view 3D now?

Cheers!

P.S. I remember the story around the vinyl audio records and their "warmth", with all the scratches etc. - and CD industry coming strong, being opposed as strongly... Sounds familiar, hehe?

I just want one E2 box.

You might soon want to change that statement, m8... we all hope...

You don't have to buy something that does that, Erik......

I, on the other hand, will buy something that gives great picture and has "flexibility and versatility", to us hobbyists... The more the merrier!

In a way, I think, Buyuk has a point:

I have AZbug HD Elite and Ferrari 500 HD and I compare the same variants of E2 on different boxes, plus the OFW in AZbug and I can clearly see the difference, without a doubt.

I do not change the settings on the telly and I leave the default settings for video in E2.

Some experts even claim some of the parameters are indeed measurable.

Any more info on the topic from that angle, please?

P.S. STi - if memory serves - are medical equipment manufacturer and many say this shows in the quality of picture... I do have a SMART Tech Titanium V2 and it's not bad with OFW, not bad at all... I tried E2 for it but one couldn't get far with that "concoction", to see any TV, sadly...

I was looking at it and I saw this...

http://www.dish.com/...gy/tv-outdoors/

Setup.

The Tailgater^® Portable HDTV System consists of a fully-automatic, portable satellite antenna and an HD receiver. It's easy to set up and automatically finds the right satellite for your DISH signal. Portable and lightweight, it's easy to carry from one outdoor activity to the next.
Note: The Tailgater^® only works in the 48 contiguous United States.

But I missed this, finding it on closer inspection:

Displays: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i

So, you might be right...

Btw, here's some help for IT lay people like myself, who would like to inform themselves a bit more, so we can get an idea of what's being discussed here, at a more pro level:

http://bradshaw-vacu...esolution_b.htm

http://electronics.h...ks.com/dtv3.htm

http://www.afterdawn.../term.cfm/1080p

Newer 1080p HDTVs are designed to accept these full resolution progressive signals, and in fact are generally capable of displaying 1080p video at framerates of 60fps or higher.

http://www.afterdawn...cfm/progressive

Not a single STB can output 1080p50. That is partly because no single service exists that broadcasts in 1080p50 (yet). If I want to see 1080p50, I need to use my own video camera and play it back on the PS3.

Maybe in the EU but we need input from our colleagues in the US on the topics, as there this is going on for years now:

updated 10:35 am EDT, Thu July 31, 2008

DISH 1080p TV

Satellite TV provider DISH Network today became the first known TV broadcaster to put out video in a full 1080p (1920x1080 progressive) resolution. Starting with an August 1st Video On Demand option for the movie I Am Legend, DISH says it will start offering 1080p whenever the content is available rather than the lower-resolution 1080i (interlaced) or 720p HD normally aired on DISH and other TV services. Using VOD effectively gives the image quality of Blu-ray but at a lower price than renting a disc, the satellite firm claims.

For instance, we can read:

Turbo HD (1080P) from Dish Network

Has anyone tried it? 1080P video resolution??

It looks like the 1080p video resolution upgrade will be done by firmware update to DISH’s MPEG-4 HD-DVRs. Their on Demand VOD service will also be available to subscribers at 1080p.

With the extra amount of bandwidth needed to deliver the signal, TurboHD will use a new type of encoding to increase data transmission and frame rates.





As of Friday August 1, 2008, DISH will add 17 new HD channels to its current lineup which totals 114 HD channels, 100 of which will be nationally available. DISH also plans to match rival DIRECTV’s plans to have 150 HD channels available by the end of 2008.

The all-HD packages using TurboHD will be available in three service tiers, Bronze, Silver, and Gold. Twenty five bucks get one 40 all-HD channels and it goes from there. DISH also says that current subscribers can add HD programming for as little as ten bucks.More information at: http://www.audioholi...rk-1080p-august

So, the provider says:

A SCREENING ROOM IN YOUR HOME.

Set up the comfortable chairs, and get out the popcorn. DISH shows movies in 1080p, the highest quality available, to bring the big screen movie theater experience into your home. Watch the latest releases, and all the classics, plus a new selection of 3D movies each month.

With DISH^® On Demand, get what you want, when you want.
DISH Cinema offers new releases on VOD in 1080p and 3D with select titles available for up to 48 hours. Plus, control your viewing with the DVR functions you love: pause, replay and fast forward.

Also Direct TV, in the US...

Written by Andre Yoskowitz @ 14 Aug 2008 14:43 User comments (24)

Beginning today, DIRECTV, the US' largest satellite television provider, will add 30 additional HD channels to its service, bringing the total to 130.
More notably, the provider says it will begin to transmit all of its HD programming in superior MPEG-4 Advanced Video Coding (AVC), the first company in the industry to do so. By the end of the month all HD programming will have Dolby Digital 5.1 audio and by the end of the year DIRECTV promises to begin offering movies in full 1080p resolution.

I agree... I see it as the future... that is already here, at least in a way...

Maybe split the thread?

How to, plus more on the side...

Just to clarify: I was shocked by the prospect of such BDCM-based HW being wasted on E2 only!!! SHOCKED!!!

[That must be the stupidest move ever in this business!! A veritable crime against profit!!!! And the hobby!]

Any proof, please? Which ones, any specs etc.?

Apparently, BDCM could make new opencl video drivers for older chips and then it could work... maybe...