270 replies to this topic

[gerard0610]

When I push the  “Calibrate" button I see (after some time) several times the message "Sync failure moving back to origin".

 

1) What is the reason for this?

 

2) What can I do to prevent this messages?

[rhinoceros]

When you press the "Calibrate" button you should always be positioned on a good (or reasonable) signal. Same is true for "Auto focus" command. Assuming you did this and you still get this message the following applies.

 

The message "Sync failure moving back to origin" is an error message that appears when no signal is found at the position where the rotor was when the button "Calibrate" was pressed (start position). When you have reasonable signal at the time you press this button and you then get this error message there is most likely something wrong in the hardware. It seems the rotor does not (correctly) return to the start position. Else the signal should be the same as before you pressed the "Calibrate" button. With this error message you cannot calibrate

 

To prevent this message, first verify that the rotor can not return correctly by moving away manually from the position from where you started the "Calibrate" command and then using a "goto" command back to where it was. You should observe an almost complete loss of signal and you need to repair the rotor fixation or replace the rotor.

 

Very occasionally it is the LNB that is unreliable but if you have no other reasons to suspect the LNB, look at the rotor fixation or replace/repair the rotor itself (gear wheels !)

Edited by rhinoceros, 6 May 2015 - 07:02.

[gerard0610]

I have assembled a new DiSEqC motor ( Power Tech 380) but still this phenomenon happens  unfortunately.

I have tested this new motor for a couple of weeks and its operations very well and returns back to his original position.

 

Can someone verify with his USALS rotating dish that the option “Calibrate” is working very well and that he/she has no error messages like "Sync failure moving back to origin".

 

I have assembled also a new LNB ( Inverto Black Ultra).

Edited by gerard0610, 22 June 2015 - 11:59.

[Jan Gruuthuse]

Yes calibrate does still function as it should. In my region (BeNeLux) 4.8°E is used to calibrate USALS. Satellite positioned closest (plumb) to south. In Ireland this would be 8°W — Eutelsat 8 West A (E8WA, AB2, Atlantic Bird 2).

Select 1st an FTA channel on the satellite 4.8°E like TET on DVB-S 11766 H 27500 3/4 QPSK.

When you have an image on this channel then:

- Menu -> Setup -> Service searching -> Positioner setup:

- SNR should show a dB signal.

- 1st select: Goto: with remote enter 004.8

- select Tune and focus and press Yellow on remote

-- GotoX callibration

-- Moving west until signal is unlocked

-- Moving east until signal is unlocked

-- final position at ... °E offset is ...

procedure should be successful.

Edited by Jan Gruuthuse, 23 June 2015 - 05:15.

[gerard0610]

Thank you for your report.

 

The procedure is clear.

I understand that the “calibrate” option is functioning well so the problem must be in my (hardware) application most likely. But I have no idea at all what the cause could be.
Sometimes the “Calibrate” option is working oké but most often not.

I have assembled new F-connectors without any improvement.

 

I have also the dish calibrated on 4.8 East (my region as well). And I received a good (strong) signals from 57East until 30 West. Even Nilesat (7 West) I receive a lot services ( TV stations).

68.5 East I don’t know because there is tree in the front.

Edited by gerard0610, 23 June 2015 - 09:53.

[Jan Gruuthuse]

after some on line updates, you're required to recalibrate usals with above procedure.

 

Calibrate:

My guess: on some weak transponders there is not enough signal available.

It does go wrong if you forget entering the 4.8°E degrees in the goto before you start to calibrate.

 

AutoTune: likely to fail on weak transponders (my experience).

 

You did add the additional Extra Motor options?

Menu -> Setup -> Service searching -> Tuner configuration -> Tuner A: .... (dvb-s2) Positioner ..... :USALS press OK on RC:

 

Check your Longitude/Latitude: google maps address bar gives your details, if you drag locator to your dish location.

- Longitude: 004.399102 , East

- Latitude 051.221291 , North

 

See if you can find the additional specification for your Power Tech 380, if so:

- Extra motor options: no change to yes (Right arrow RC)

- press [green] save on remote

[Robinson]

My dream would be to have the following functionality:

Let's say my arc is more or less correct for most satellites between 30E - 20W (except maybe the weakest ones such as 7W). Then I go to 24.5W and my dish requires fine-tuning by 0.5E I just press one button and my dish tries to tune the best signal and after that always remembers to offset this satellite by 0.5 deg. Then I go to 30W and an offset of 1 deg is necessary. Then I press the same button again, auto-tuning and done!

The same in the east. I go to 42E and the dish tries focusing on the strongest signal, whci requires to move by 0.3W. One click and from then on every time I go to 42E the dish is offset by 0.3W.

[gerard0610]

after some on line updates, you're required to recalibrate usals with above procedure.

 

1) Calibrate:

My guess: on some weak transponders there is not enough signal available.

It does go wrong if you forget entering the 4.8°E degrees in the goto before you start to calibrate.

 

2) AutoTune: likely to fail on weak transponders (my experience).

 

3) You did add the additional Extra Motor options?

Menu -> Setup -> Service searching -> Tuner configuration -> Tuner A: .... (dvb-s2) Positioner ..... :USALS press OK on RC:

 

4) Check your Longitude/Latitude: google maps address bar gives your details, if you drag locator to your dish location.

- Longitude: 004.399102 , East

- Latitude 051.221291 , North

 

5) See if you can find the additional specification for your Power Tech 380, if so:

- Extra motor options: no change to yes (Right arrow RC)

- press [green] save on remote

1) I Have tested with strong signals (14dB) and weak (8 dB) signals. Both with the same problem

 

2) Auto Tune (you mean Auto focus) is not functioning with USALS in my opinion.

 

3) No I haven't used Extra motor options. However after adjust it to extra motor options, still the problem occurs.

 

4) I have put in the correct value for the Longitude en Latitude. This is correct because I have good signals from 57East until 30West.

e.g: 53East Al-Anwar=12.0dB on a VU+Duo and 30 West Al Jazzera intl=40dB.

 

5) Also after this change the problem occur.

 

The problem is that I push on Calibrate it start ( at 14 dB) to move to the East or to the West by steps of 0.4 , 07 1.1, 1,4 degrees untill there is signal (SNR) anymore. Then it moving to 0.0 degrees and there is no signal (SNR) anymore. This should be 14dB in my opinion.
Then I recieve the error message "Sync failure moving back to origin".

Most often this problems occurs. Sometimes however I get 14dB on 0.0 degrees.

 

Very strange.

 

( my dish is 120cm)

Edited by gerard0610, 23 June 2015 - 13:51.

[gerard0610]

30 West Al Jazzera intl=14dB.

[Jan Gruuthuse]

2) Auto Tune (you mean Auto focus) is not functioning with USALS in my opinion.

 

Indeed auto focus: as you say is not working. Perhaps only using fine movement and not getting weaker signal.

On 28.2 it does not find the unlock signal going west (10847 V 23000 2/2.

 

You can however use Calibrate if needed/wanted.

With an active fta channel on 28.2°E (example: bbc one HD) goto Positioner setup as indicated previously.

1st select Goto and enter from RC 028.2 East

Now you can select Tune and focus and press yellow (Calibrate)

If you find different deviations between different sat positions you could consider realigning dish pole/dish to the sat most closest to south.

- dish pole 360° plumb in the vertical

- dish inclination as proposed by dish manufacture, then adjusted to signal reception

- when aligned correctly deviations should be minimal. Top arc, bottom left arc and bottom right arc.

 

Keep in mind, some sat locations on itself are not stable and do deviate form their supposed position.

[rhinoceros]

 

2) Auto Tune (you mean Auto focus) is not functioning with USALS in my opinion.

 

Indeed auto focus: as you say is not working. Perhaps only using fine movement and not getting weaker signal.

On 28.2 it does not find the unlock signal going west (10847 V 23000 2/2.

 

Autofocus is looking for signal loss until +/- 6 degrees from the position when commencing. Even the smallest dish would have lost signal by then. You could still have signal at those limits only if there is a neighbor sat with the same transponder (freq, pol, sr). Perhaps you should verify your setting for the tuning step size. That value is used to calculate the 6 degrees limit.

[rhinoceros]

@gerard0610:

 

You don't have a problem with signal.

 

Rotor turning speed is most likely specified by the manufacturer with nominal dish weight. You have a larger disk. Could be that the actual turning speed is lower than the specified speed. Try with lower values for the turning speeds.

[rhinoceros]

 

2) Auto Tune (you mean Auto focus) is not functioning with USALS in my opinion.

 

Auto focus has nothing to do with USALS, does not need it and does not know about it. If new auto focus position is accepted you can store it in a diseqc 1.2 memory index. If you keep using USALS for that sat, of course, you would not use the newly stored value since that is only for diseqc 1.2

[Jan Gruuthuse]

Ok that makes it clear. Should auto focus not be present in that menu, when tuner shows as set for usals?

Edited by Jan Gruuthuse, 23 June 2015 - 18:48.

[gerard0610]

Dear rhinoceros and Jan Gruuthuse,

 

Both thank for your response. Both helped me in that way that my problem is solved.

I have a Powertech 380 motor and in the specifications is written “High 0.1 degree precision resolution (others have a 0.3 or more. The lower the number the better)”.

If you look in the “extra motor option” (yes): the default value of  “Turning step size (degree)” is 0.360.
 

-First I have put this value on 0.26 degrees and still the “calibration” problem occur.
-Then I put on this value on 0.21 degrees and the problem was solved.
-Then I put this value on 0.10 ( as in the specification of the PowerTech 380) is given and the “calibration” was functioning correctly. However the lower the “Turning step size (degree)” is how longer the value in time is needed. This is a disadvantage(but no problem).

[rhinoceros]

-Then I put this value on 0.10 ( as in the specification of the PowerTech 380) is given and the “calibration” was functioning correctly. However the lower the “Turning step size (degree)” is how longer the value in time is needed. This is a disadvantage(but no problem).

 

I strongly recommend to use the correct values. Mind you, there is "Tuning step size", not "Turning step size" and there is "Turning speed (H/V)". The Tuning step size is your rotor resolution in steps/degree. That is rotor degree. It defines how many steps you have per degree. It should be set to 0.1 for this rotor if that is what the specification says.The lower this number, the more measurements are needed That is what takes time. Not a disadvantage but a choice of rotor. You have a finer position resolution at the expense of more measurements. You can press the <info> button to see the latter. A wrong value here could means that calibration, auto focus, etc. could all be wrong since steps have to be converted to degrees and vice versa using this value.

 

The turning speeds are something you could experiment with, I mean lower that the specified values. It means waiting for dish movements will take more time, but measurements would be more stable.

 

The actual rotor turning speeds are used to determine how fast a position is expected to be reached. These values should be specified but also depend on the dish weight. Use the specification values or estimate these yourself manually.

[gerard0610]

Dear rhinoceros,

 

Thank you for attention points. I have indeed made a mistake.

 

In the specifications of the DiSeqC motor PowerTech 380 is written:
Speed: 1.9 degree/sec. (at 13V) ; 2.5 degree/sec. (at 18V)
Precision resolution: 0.1 degree.

 

In DiSEqC is
horizontal: 18 Volt
vertical: 13 Volt

 

This means that I have made the following adjustments in OpenPli/Extra motor options:
Horizontal turning speed (degree/sec.): 2.5
Vertical turning speed     (degree/sec): 1.9
Tuning stepsize             (degree):0.100

 

I made yesterday four test and everything worked well. I will make more test in the coming weeks for conformation.

Edited by gerard0610, 1 July 2015 - 10:13.

[Robinson]

Indeed I had it on my list of to-do's to look into a more flexible setup for motors. Can someone collect examples of what would be needed. More LNB's on 1 rotor ? More rotors ? If possible with a schematic of the cabling, since it is important to know how the flow of commands has to be. E.g., if a rotor diseqc command has to go on a different cable than the LNB selected then we need to store more topology details. In other words it would become more complex.

 

What would be the most important flexibility to have?

I'm not sure if someone proficient in installation gave you some hints or if you are already working on something but it would really be good to have a "motor" object.

Also, I have a very strange type of installation in my head. A motor with 2-3 LNB's separated by 6 degrees.

In other words, with a motor and an extra LNB I would like to be able to receive the following satellites (two or three):

19E &13E

19E & 13E & 7E

5E & 1W

1W & 7W

Of course, all of these on the same system depending on the actual motor position.

[Jan Gruuthuse]

Depending your setup

- fixed lnb's on your main positions (19°,13° & 1°W)

- motor for the remaining

- seems this can be done if take coax 1st to motor then to switch and lnb's

see Rob van der Does 's posting, this doucment: Combine fixed and motor LNB's Vs2

Edited by Jan Gruuthuse, 13 September 2015 - 11:53.

[Huevos]

 

I

Also, I have a very strange type of installation in my head. A motor with 2-3 LNB's separated by 6 degrees.

In other words, with a motor and an extra LNB I would like to be able to receive the following satellites (two or three):

19E &13E

19E & 13E & 7E

5E & 1W

1W & 7W

Of course, all of these on the same system depending on the actual motor position.

 

Robinson, please can you be more clear what you are asking. I've got motorised dishes here with more than one LNB. There are lots of ways this can be configured without needing a motor object.